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S/O excuse... Americans vs. Israelis
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amother




Powderblue


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 10:15 am
I'm curious to know who is better at keeping a clean and neat home. From my personal experience, it's definitely the israelis, but very possible that it's just the ones I know of....
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 10:23 am
They just don't own any stuff.
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 10:27 am
some and some. Maybe it depends on your roots and priorities and culture....

My Israeli roommate in seminary came from a spotless home. I remember going to her family for Shabbos - we got there on Friday and her mother had a spread fit for the army for us, just for lunch. All homemade.

She was of Morroccan Sephardi origins.

The house shone. The walls were white. Not a speck anywhere.....
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 10:29 am
ectomorph wrote:
They just don't own any stuff.


Truth.

Israelis are very minimalist. Even ones who have lots of money, have priorities that are different from Americans. They aren't into having so much "stuff". If they have the money, it gets spent on better quality, not quantity. Candlesticks will be solid silver, not plated. Shabbos kids clothes will be designer, not from the local shops. Shoes will be European.

Israelis like lots of clean, open spaces so that kids have lots of room to play. They like plain furniture, that can stand to be jumped on. Bookshelves are for seforim only, not for dusty knick-nacks.

My house is full of antiques that I've collected or inherited over the years. Israelis are a bit overwhelmed when they first walk in! Surprised
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amother




Smokey


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 10:30 am
Americans.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 10:32 am
Chayalle wrote:
some and some. Maybe it depends on your roots and priorities and culture....

My Israeli roommate in seminary came from a spotless home. I remember going to her family for Shabbos - we got there on Friday and her mother had a spread fit for the army for us, just for lunch. All homemade.

She was of Morroccan Sephardi origins.

The house shone. The walls were white. Not a speck anywhere.....


My neighbor across the hall is Moroccan Sephardi. The cooking smells that come from her place are amazing! Lots of kids, always perfectly dressed, spotless apartment. When I've gone over there for simchas, the spreads were unbelievable. I've never seen so many types of salatim in my life. I haven't felt like that since I was in an Italian grandma's kitchen.
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 10:35 am
You meant to say they don't collect stuff. Stuff, as in items that are under the clutter / hoarder category.

I've lived here most of my life and we most defiantly own stuff, how could we not? We just don't have huge basements with endless items carrying dust from 25 years ago and large walk in closets with who knows what falling at you when opened.

Israel isn't third world country, I hope you know. It's just a different mentality and lack of space that make most homes in Israel more clean and tidy, not every home, but most, in comparison to America of course.
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 10:37 am
Not a direct answer to your question, but funny story:

A friend of mine is a child of Americans, though she is fully Israeli. She is a model housekeeper (not an easy feat, given her husband's line of work), and she told me that growing up, she thought all Americans are "balaganistim," culturally. Every American family she met was topsy-turvy... Until, in her late teens, she actually went to America. She was visiting her relatives in the NY area, and their friends. When she saw their beautiful, decorated, pristine and active homes, she was completely floored. XD

-----------
Is it due to the difficulties of aliyah?

Maybe a certain kind of personality is drawn to Aliyah, and such people are also not-so-neat?

I don't know, but hands down: olim lose the neat-freak contest.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:19 am
Rappel wrote:
Not a direct answer to your question, but funny story:

A friend of mine is a child of Americans, though she is fully Israeli. She is a model housekeeper (not an easy feat, given her husband's line of work), and she told me that growing up, she thought all Americans are "balaganistim," culturally. Every American family she met was topsy-turvy... Until, in her late teens, she actually went to America. She was visiting her relatives in the NY area, and their friends. When she saw their beautiful, decorated, pristine and active homes, she was completely floored. XD

-----------
Is it due to the difficulties of aliyah?

Maybe a certain kind of personality is drawn to Aliyah, and such people are also not-so-neat?

I don't know, but hands down: olim lose the neat-freak contest.
Is wgat due to the difficulties of aliyah? First, not everyone's aliyah is difficult and second you think someone's house is tidy or not because of aliyah?
Personalities and aliyah??? Um, no. Sooooo many different TYPES of people make aliyah.
I know MANY olim who are very neat.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:21 am
ectomorph wrote:
They just don't own any stuff.
It always strikes me as bizarre when people who dont live here maje such sweeping generalizations. We have STUFF. And some israelis also own BIG homes AND have stuff.
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:23 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
Truth.

Israelis are very minimalist. Even ones who have lots of money, have priorities that are different from Americans. They aren't into having so much "stuff". If they have the money, it gets spent on better quality, not quantity. Candlesticks will be solid silver, not plated. Shabbos kids clothes will be designer, not from the local shops. Shoes will be European.

Israelis like lots of clean, open spaces so that kids have lots of room to play. They like plain furniture, that can stand to be jumped on. Bookshelves are for seforim only, not for dusty knick-nacks.

My house is full of antiques that I've collected or inherited over the years. Israelis are a bit overwhelmed when they first walk in! Surprised


They're just not into collecting random things from yard sales etc. Don't think I ever saw a yard sale in Israel
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amother




Chocolate


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:36 am
Rappel wrote:
Not a direct answer to your question, but funny story:

A friend of mine is a child of Americans, though she is fully Israeli. She is a model housekeeper (not an easy feat, given her husband's line of work), and she told me that growing up, she thought all Americans are "balaganistim," culturally. Every American family she met was topsy-turvy... Until, in her late teens, she actually went to America. She was visiting her relatives in the NY area, and their friends. When she saw their beautiful, decorated, pristine and active homes, she was completely floored. XD

-----------
Is it due to the difficulties of aliyah?

Maybe a certain kind of personality is drawn to Aliyah, and such people are also not-so-neat?

I don't know, but hands down: olim lose the neat-freak contest.


The most successful olim I know have figured out that they can't control everything. You need to go with the flow to deal with big life changes So this could very well be expressed in more relaxed housekeeping. (I live in Israel and my house is very neat, but not up to Moroccan grandmother standards.)
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etky




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:43 am
ectomorph wrote:
They're just not into collecting random things from yard sales etc. Don't think I ever saw a yard sale in Israel


Lol. That's b/c many people don't have yards like they do in the States.
More common scenario here is people selling stuff on FB buy + sell groups, or on internet boards.
I agree though that people here probably have less stuff overall than in the US.
Homes are smaller with less storage space and often with more people per square meterage.
Consumer goods are more expensive too.
Also the dominant aspirational aesthetic in home design is minimalist and streamlined.
Sure people shop here and the consumer culture is (unfortunately IMO) lightyears more developed than it used to be but still it's nowheres near the obsession with buying that prevails in the US.
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aquad




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:44 am
There's also so much junk and it's hard to find good quality stuff that nothing is worth saving.
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imasoftov




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:44 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
It always strikes me as bizarre when people who dont live here maje such sweeping generalizations. We have STUFF. And some israelis also own BIG homes AND have stuff.

Or even if someone grows up here and claims to know the whole country.

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amother




Tan


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 11:53 am
amother wrote:
The most successful olim I know have figured out that they can't control everything. You need to go with the flow to deal with big life changes So this could very well be expressed in more relaxed housekeeping. (I live in Israel and my house is very neat, but not up to Moroccan grandmother standards.)

My Moroccan grandmother had full time cleaning help, as her mother did back in Morocco. They were responsible for cooking and children (the cleaning help would change a diaper or cut some vegetables). Maybe in Israel those women do everything themselves, but back in Morocco there was always help.
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amother




Cobalt


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 12:10 pm
My mil is Moroccan and her house is a dirty, cluttered mess. On the other hand, she enjoyed a fulfilling career after earning an advanced university degree, and she raised happy, easygoing children. You will find every kind of person in every culture.
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amother




Wine


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 12:20 pm
I have been living here for many years, my family moved here when I was young but we kept up with relatives in the U.S. and traveled often, most of my immediate and extended family live in the U.S. I am part of both worlds - I say this so u know I'm not taking sides, or trying to put anyone down ch'v.
What I see is the real Israelis really don't own much 'extra'. They have what they need and that's it. That's why it's easier for them to keep neater homes, they've lived like this for generations and are copying what they know. A lot of olim are used to bigger homes and more stuff and therefore keep messier homes.
Another point- Americans more often than not have lots of household help if their houses are clean and neat. Israelis generally don't have much help and if their homes are neat it's due to their hard work.
So to answer OPs question - I think Israelis have neater homes.
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Latke




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 12:24 pm
I'm not sure and don't want to make a generalization, but in my experience, American jews tend to have more clutter in their homes than Israelis. (Especially in my family LOL )
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chanchy123




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 09 2019, 12:25 pm
Rappel wrote:
Not a direct answer to your question, but funny story:

A friend of mine is a child of Americans, though she is fully Israeli. She is a model housekeeper (not an easy feat, given her husband's line of work), and she told me that growing up, she thought all Americans are "balaganistim," culturally. Every American family she met was topsy-turvy... Until, in her late teens, she actually went to America. She was visiting her relatives in the NY area, and their friends. When she saw their beautiful, decorated, pristine and active homes, she was completely floored. XD

-----------
Is it due to the difficulties of aliyah?

Maybe a certain kind of personality is drawn to Aliyah, and such people are also not-so-neat?

I don't know, but hands down: olim lose the neat-freak contest.


100% my experience (first time in the US was at 18).

I think Americans tend to have a lot of cleaning help and are used to large homes to store (useless) stuff.
It takes a lot to adjust to smaller homes and no (or considerably less) cleaning help.
The cleanest homes I've been to were wealthy North Americans with tons of paid help, then native Israelis, then us American-Israelis in last place.
I honestly don't know many people like FF described, maybe some of my chareidi relatives.
Americans are hoarders, many of them shop way too much, having a lot of space means you just never git rid of things or have an incentive to think before you shop.

Edit
After 40 years in Israel my parents (who have a very large house in Israeli standards) have learned to get rid of things and there house is now so much tidier.
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