The shutdown | Imamother

amother

Amber

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 11:31 am

amother wrote:

SNAP (food stamps) will be funded through February. Section 8 and public funding also runs out in March.

States have picked up the slack on TANF, but no one knows how long that will last.

So the issue is bad now, but could get much worse.

The House has voted to fund and re-open parts of the government. The Senate -- a la Mitch McConnell -- refuses to bring it to a vote on the grounds that Trump won't support it.

Trump refuses to discuss any border security provisions unless the Democrats agree to provide $5 billion for a wall. Why its an emergency now, but not last year, or two years ago, no one can say. But unless Trump is willing to compromise -- and I can't see that happening -- those gemachs better hold on to their money; they're going to need it to feed a lot of hungry kids.

Every President utilizes a shutdown if they have an important agenda to pass. Obama did it too. I blame both parties. Compromise please!!!

amother

Honeydew

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 11:48 am

amother wrote:

Every President utilizes a shutdown if they have an important agenda to pass. Obama did it too. I blame both parties. Compromise please!!!

Try again.

Trump wanted this shutdown, and was proud of it.

“You want to know something? I’ll tell you what: I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck [Schumer]. I will take the mantle,” Mr. Trump went on. “I will be the one to shut it down — I’m not going to blame you for it.”

The 2013 shutdown did relate to efforts to de-fund the ACA. But it was largely engineered by certain Republicans, especially Ted Cruz, not Obama. Both Obama and Boehner (a Republican, of course) were repeatedly quoted as opposing the shutdown-as-strategy gambit in 2013, the former describing it as "entirely preventable" and the latter as "[not] some darn game." And yes, even Republicans, at the time, attributed it to Cruz.

But you are correct that there needs to be compromise. That's not happening when you have a president who says "will you give me everything I want? no? goodbye" And a spineless Speaker who refuses to consider anything that the president doesn't want.

amother

Amber

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 12:14 pm

amother wrote:

My father is a diehard Democrat. He is a federal employee that has been directly affected by the shutdown. BUT he and scores of his fellow federal employees full support President Trump. Make no mistake, to many people in this country, border security is an issue they support.

amother

Purple

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 12:17 pm

amother wrote:

Well, he can always donate to that wall GoFundMe if he wants a wall so badly.

Most people are against the wall not because they don't care about border security, but because they know it's stupid and a waste of money. There are much better ways to improve border security than building a wall.

amother

Amber

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 12:20 pm

[quote="amother"]Well, he can always donate to that wall GoFundMe if he wants a wall so badly.

Most people are against the wall not because they don't care about border security, but because they know it's stupid and a waste of money. There are much better ways to improve border security than building

No need to be snarky. My father is serving well his country that he loves very much. We are allowed to disagree on issues. That is what make our county a democracy.

Cmon be nice

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 12:26 pm

amother wrote:

My Dad works for the IRS as well. It is very hard for him having nothing to do all day (his job is his life) and not getting paid. It's tough....

IRS said that most workers will be ordered back to work even though they wont get paid as they need to start processing tax returns, though your father may be in a different department. Hopefully they get paid retroactively when shutdown is over, however those who filed for unemployment will then have to pay it back. A real bad situation for these workers

Last edited by Cmon be nice on Fri, Jan 11 2019, 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

SixOfWands

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 12:32 pm

Sebastian wrote:

:shrug the shutdown will end eventually. It depends who will be more stubborn. Both sides are playing politics.
It stinks that the workers need to suffer but imo the government shouldn't have that many employees.

Trumps wants his wall now b/c he's going to be running for re election soon.

Just curious how long you could survive with no income. Let's assume that you don't have parents or other relatives who will give you money.

How many paychecks can you go before you're unable to pay your mortgage of rent. Before you tell the kids that you're skipping their dental appointment because you don't have the money right now. Before you can't pay your regular grocery bills.

What if these people walked off their jobs, since you think so many of them are superfluous. Air traffic controllers? Feh. Just look both ways, pilots. TSA? Its not like people are trying to smuggle in drugs, or we have to worry about terrorists. FBI? CIA? Homeland Security? Courts? How about the people who pick up the trash in federal parks?

amother

Navy

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 12:36 pm

Sebastian wrote:

Workers? They actually do jobs that impact citizens.

Government can be reduced - after a plan to privatize needed services. Maybe outsource the IRS offshore?

SixOfWands

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 12:38 pm

amother wrote:

No need to be snarky. My father is serving well his country that he loves very much. We are allowed to disagree on issues. That is what make our county a democracy.

Indeed. He has every right to his opinion.

Interesting to note that there are nine members of the House of Representatives whose districts lie along the US-Mexico border. Eight are Democrats. The sole Republican is categorically opposed to a wall. "I think building a concrete structure sea to shining sea is the most expensive and least effective way to do border security."

Amarante

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 1:20 pm

Building a wall is not a crisis. The reality is that border crossings are down and that most undocumented aliens are here on expired visas.

Drugs generally enter through normal channels of commerce such as trucks passing through existing border crossings.

More people on the watch list entered through the Canadian border than through the Southern border.

The issue is not whether to support border security as no one is against border security. The issue is whether to spend 6 billion dollars of US Taxpayer money on an ineffective barricade when there are more modern and effective means to provide security.

amother

Amber

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 1:25 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

I honestly don’t know how it’s legal to just dump hundreds of thousands of employees from one minute to the next with no pay like this. I find it baffling to say the least. All in the name of improving the country?! And prioritizing Americans over foreigners? How does that work?
Scratching Head

Shutdowns have happened during the Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Obama administrations as well. When both parties can't agree on a budget for the incoming year, there is no money to pay the federal employees. No one gets "dumped". Essential employers are still required to work and everyone will end up getting paid. It's just disastrous for those living paycheck to paycheck.

Amarante

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 1:28 pm

Not that all Federal workers don't provide valuable services but it is especially ironic since every IRS worker provides way more in revenue than his salary. In fact, if the IRS were funded and employed more people, it would provide even more revenue as there could be more audits.

And Trump seems to have forgotten Truman's famous desk paperweight which stated

The Buck Stops Here

When asked Trump responded that the buck stops with everyone Banging head

amother

Dodgerblue

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 1:51 pm

First of all, its a partial shutdown so it doesn't have the affect the previous shutdown during Obama's time had where the Government was on standstill for over 2 weeks.

Second of all, the Senate passed a bill saying employees affected will get back pay and Trump indicated he would sign it.

Third of all, as a Fed myself, those of you on the outside are very unfamiliar with the culture. We whine a lot about the bureaucratic bull$%^& that we put up with but we wouldn't give up our jobs for anything. We aren't worked nearly as hard as the private sector. We have great insurance, great pensions, generous leave policies and flexibility and worker protections. GS employees are paid decently and have built in raises. We tend to make a big deal about many things because that is the culture but when it comes down to it, we get back pay and our jobs are very secure. It's just a downside that we need to deal with as part of our jobs. I am betting that IRS employees who are complaining wouldn't give up their jobs to go work for a public accounting firm or TSA agents go work in private security.

By all means, worry about the people on the outside who get food stamps and section 8 but please don't worry about the Feds. We are ok and like any job there are downsides that we have to deal with.

Signed a Fed who got furloughed.

Ravenclaw

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 1:57 pm

amother wrote:

I still don’t see how this logically refutes what I said. First of all, previous shutdowns are irrelevant to the current discussion. I promise you that federal workers currently without an source of income couldn’t care less how many times this has happened before.
Second of all... working without pay isn’t called being dumped? Fine, call it something else. Still doesn’t seem fair.
Thirdly, can someone explain the logic behind this? Illegal immigrants are ruining the country! Stealing jobs from hardworking Americans! Americans come first! So let’s just leave hundreds of thousands of Americans hanging without pay so that we can combat this terrible emergency. That totally makes sense as a solution.
Lastly, I am honestly confused how this solves anything. If they will end up paying everyone their full salary (only late) as you say, then what are they gaining? If they have the money, why can’t they pay them now? If they want to rather use the money for something else (the wall) then how will they suddenly have money to backtrack pay for all these workers then? Could someone explain to me how a shutdown works and how it can be at all beneficial? I think I am missing something here.

amother

Honeydew

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 1:59 pm

amother wrote:

I am very glad that you like your job, and that you can afford to live while not being paid.

Others don't have that luxury, and I know several who are already polishing their resumes because they're going to need work soon.

And my colleague's sister and BIL at TSA? They like their jobs a great deal. But they can't pay the mortgage or feed their kids without a paycheck.

amother

Vermilion

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 2:07 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

What you’re missing is the mind of a Trump supporter. There is no logic, no reason, no common sense to any of this. It’s the president throwing a tantrum and his base bowing to that no matter the cost.