Pet peeves at others' shabbat tables you try not to do

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 8:18 am

octopus wrote:

And the people with allergies: I am going to sound critical but also understand I have a kid with allergies and I'm not coming from a place of zero tolerance. If you have an allergy, TELL YOUR HOSTESS EARLY ENOUGH! This is your responsibility. Tell her what the issues are in advance.

Totally agree. I always ask guests if there is anything they can't or don't eat. Refusing to answer honestly because you don't want to cause trouble puts me in the awkward position of serving food you don't want. Why not let me prepare a meal you will enjoy?

amother

Blonde

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 8:24 am

nachlaot wrote:

it's not asking *someone* to pass the water. it's asking someone to ask someone to ask someone to ask someone to pass the water, over a loud table of jews in heated conversations. and it's not just asking people to pass the water; it's also the fact that the water is often empty.

Maybe you can offer to go into the kitchen and refill it. Your host is obviously busy doing other things and didn’t notice that the water is empty - or maybe she finally sat down to have a bite to eat before she has to get up again to do something else. Or maybe she is in the middle of a conversation with a guest and isn’t looking over at the water pitcher every 5 minutes. Maybe she only put one pitcher out because her kid was crying about something and she needed to help them. Hosting is not a job, it is a chesed.

Like one of the other posters above wrote - many of the suggestions are fine. What is really bothering me is the sense of entitlement. You keep saying you’re thankful, and I believe you are, you just expect more. I’m going to cut you some slack because you sound very young- maybe without kids or other major responsibilities. So it’s possible you have this extra time to devote to hosting and perfecting it. That’s fine. But don’t expect anyone else to do the things you’re doing, and be thankful to them for what they are doing for you.

Harried mama

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 8:42 am

Squishy wrote:

I hear this.

My point is that this is how DH runs his Shabbos table. He does not like to cut the challah until it is wanted as he likes it fresh from the loaf. I don't feel strong enough about this or any issue to ask him to do different.

There are enough complaints on this thread that you can see you can't please every guest, so I only try to please DH.

Your DH is definitely the one you should be trying to please and I do the same, but if I think something might be making a guest uncomfortable, I might gently make a suggestion to keep both DH and the guest happy. To use the challah example, I might ask my DH to cut 2-3 slices to have on the table while leaving the rest uncut so it doesn't dry out. He can replace those as they get eaten. If he still doesn't want to do this, you've lost nothing by suggesting it, and if he's okay with the suggestion, you would likely be making your guests a lot more comfortable.

teachkids

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 9:08 am

amother wrote:

If you ask me, I will answer honestly. But I've had a lot of experiences that have shown me that people who don't ask ahead won't do anything about it, and will attack me telling me that my allergy is made up since it's rare and so specific. As I mentioned, it's so easy to avoid, as long as you don't try serving me the 1 food I'm allergic to on your table. I will find things I enjoy, I guarantee you.

33055

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 9:09 am

Harried mama wrote:

I appreciate your tact. DH would do as I suggest, but I am not going to ask him to change anything.

We must be doing something right because our guests keep coming back and asking if they can bring others with them.

sub

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 9:12 am

amother wrote:

IIUC you do need to drink at night.

Nope you don’t. I looked it up
Someone, which is usually the one who makes kiddish has to drink rov kos. The reason we drink is because it is a kos shel bracha
“Having everyone drink kiddush wine at night is brought down in the shulchan aruch 271:14 and is based on the rosh in the 10th perek of pesachim siman 16 who, as interpreted by the beit yosef in orach chaim 271, is basing himself on the gemara in pesachim 106a where we see that those gathered also drank wine at the morning kiddush. But it has nothing to do with kiddush per se and you are more than yotzei as long as someone drank a shiur. The practice to drink has to do with partaking of all kosei bracha and this even applies to the kos used for bentching (see shulchan aruch 190:1). The connection to all kosei bracha is made by tosfot there in pesachim 106a and by the gra in shulchan aruch 190:1. It seems to me that this all ties in to the gemara in brachot 51a where one of the eleven things mentioned about a kos shel bracha is giving the extras to your wife and kids.”

amother

Jetblack

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 9:17 am

teachkids wrote:

Wow, I'm sorry that's happened to you. In a similar vein, I've found that when I tell people about my child's (multiple) allergies, they often try to accommodate but end up making mistakes. For the many people who aren't used to cooking with severe food allergies in mind, it can be very hard to remember to check every ingredient in every ingredient in each dish. Often they have good intentions and decide to make x because it won't have any off limit ingredients, and halfway through cooking it they realize it does in fact have a version of a non allowed ingredient.

If people ask, I tell them all the allergies (with specific examples of commonly used foods with those ingredients). If they don't ask, it's usually easier and more comfortable for everyone if I just wing it on the spot. I always make sure that child eats before the meal so hunger isn't an issue, and kids tend to be picky anyway so no one has to know why she is or isn't eating each dish.

little neshamala

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 9:44 am

Squishy wrote:

Why don't you care about being nice to people welcoming your family into their houses? Why don't you show gratitude to those that included your family?

I if I open my home to anyone including a family with multiple children, don't try to control what goes on in my home. I spend a lot of time cooking and baking and shopping and cleaning before and after. I am not interested in complaints. I am serious about not coming back. I am changing nothing for complaining people. So why make both of us aggravated?

FTR, DH doesn't go around asking people to introduce themselves, nor speak on the parsha, but if he did I would fully support him because my shalom bias comes first.

DH cuts the challah and gives eveyone a generous piece, ...the uncut challah remains on the board. If you can't speak up, then do without. We put out around15 dips expecting people to only take a small portion to eat with their challah and fish. I prepare nice food and rather people eat the food I prepare than fill up on challah.

If I serve too much fish, I get complaints that they have no room for the main course. You can't please everyone, so I just please DH. My silverware contains one knife for each place setting, but I do put plastic wear in the center of the table for those that want more cutlery.

I really don't want to hear anything more than a thank you when someone leaves.

Why in heavens name do you think I didnt show gratitude to those who invited us??? I STILL show gruatitude, years later-and its not fake, its 100% genuine. I very much appreciate EVERY SINGLE PERSON who thought about us, remembered us, invited us...I know it couldnt have been easy for some of them, and to keep remembering we lost our father and could benefit from a meal, was such a beautiful chessed. Im thankful for my beautiful Monsey community to this day.

However

Some of our well-intentioned, lovely, beautiful hosts, unintentionally made us feel very uncomfortable.

They didnt realize it.

I am not angry at them.

I still appreciate them.

I have nothing but hakaras hatov for them, and I have told them so.

Therefor, I thought this thread was a wonderful idea. I would never ever chas v'shalom tell our hosts that I was uncomfortable because of something they did. But here, anonymously, there is a chance simply to raise awareness.

Simply to raise awareness.

I would assume most hosts would care about making their guests feel comfortable. Otherwise I cant understand some of the defensiveness im hearing

Harried mama

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 9:49 am

Squishy wrote:

I'm sure you're good hosts. I would continue to go back to a host I liked even if they didn't cut the rest of the challah. I would just prefer if they would. It's really only a small detail in the big scheme of things, and if your guests keep coming back, as you said, you're obviously doing something right. (Also, guests that keep coming back are more likely to be comfortable asking your DH to cut them a slice of challah.)

amother

Gray

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 9:52 am

Since we are aspiring to total honesty here. I think op is missing a cultural nuance with the 2 sets of plastic plates the same size prefrence. (Though that can be acceptable in the circles u run in).

In my circles , spanning balabatish households in the United States. Young American couples in israel and established families all over israel - no one served on plastic barring emergencies, a low key Shabbos with their family or a bochurim meal with 20+ ppl. A Shabbos meal is a fancy seuda, served on real dishes that generally come with appetizer plates, sometimes specifically referred to as salad plates, soup bowls and larger dinner plates. I wouldn’t expect two big plastic plates anywhere outside a Dira meal. They don’t usually come with a fish knife either, outside of Europe but I’ve been to some that have and others that don’t.

Also, wine at the Shabbos seuda is not like wine at a dinner meal, it’s more like the restaurant experience again, you get served a glass and may refill once, more than that is quite unusual (unless it’s a younger crowd).

Water and similar issues- I personally don’t find the passing to be a big deal, sometimes a host will notice and bring out another bottle. Also, over Shabbos we ate out both meals, by each I stood and asked the host where I can get more water, they did not flinch and showed me where the bottles were/ where to refill the pitcher. No biggie.

One did do ice breakers, it’s was sweet and short. Again I felt it was their choice as hosts and was not offensive at the least. I did enjoy the other meal more, where there was singing and less talking but that is a matter of prefrence.

amother

Tan

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 9:56 am

Squishy wrote:

I'm confused why you are taking this thread personally. I can only assume that you host a lot, and are clearly well liked by your community, and seeing things here that you do listed as pet peeves is jarring you.
Two things can be true at once:
Clearly your guests have a great experience and enjoy your home (the food, the ambiance, the conversation, everything).
That being said, it's interesting to hear from those who are often guests what little touches they intend to incorporate when they start hosting based in their (over all positive!) experiences.
This doesn't mean that people have been walking away after being hosted in your home muttering ungratefully to themselves about the challah not being sliced.

little neshamala

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 10:03 am

amother wrote:

This is true. We often kept coming back to the hosts who unintentionally made us uncomfortable. We didnt leave muttering, and were grateful for another invite-but we did wish certain things had been done differently.