Pet peeves at others' shabbat tables you try not to do

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Ruchel

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 4:04 pm

I hate coca on the shabbes tish but the worst is when there is no water!!

I don't like serving myself but I know some don't plate and it's not a pet peeve.

Politics never gets discussed.

I have discovered the cooked little salads thing rather recently and while I like some of them, to me its neither shabbesdik nor something my family would eat, so I would not want it to be the whole meal...

Shuly

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 4:16 pm

Iymnok wrote:

Except when that’s the halacha. We fill the small glasses before kiddush. When we have guests Dh fills a second becher to pour from.
The first pouring from the kiddush cup should go to the one who made kiddush. He could pit into his own glass to ensure that he gets enough. (Malei lugmav, revi'is, 1/2 kos)

DH says the person should drink from the cup he made kiddush on, but he is allowed to pour off some first.
He fills a second cup with grape juice before he makes kiddush and after saying the bracha on his becher, he pours a little from the becher into the cup of grape juice and then he drinks from his becher.

Raisin

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 4:32 pm

I'm not changing the size of my salad plates. I serve 1 salad, 1 or 2 types of fish and 2 or 3 dips. I don't like being full by the main course and neither does my husband and I presume most other people also don't.

I agree about drinks and you reminded me I need to buy more water jugs. They smash on occasion.

I do agree about wine glasses but I have so many guests that I simply don't have storage or stamina to store and wash up so many. Maybe I could put a few in the centre of the table for the wine drinkers.

amother

cornflower

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 6:17 pm

amother wrote:

Here’s another example of where priorities come in. Not everyone has the same priorities. I think that separate towels for everyone sounds very wasteful. That’s a whole extra load of laundry. If someone is immune compromised they can easily take a paper towel from the kitchen when they wash without even having to ask. Everyone else can wipe their hands on the same couple of hand towels that other people are using to wipe their CLEAN hands. It is ok for most people to be exposed to some germs (obviously exceptions for immune compromised).

Most people don't wash their hands with soap after coming in, so the towel is NOT clean.

amother

cornflower

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 6:19 pm

Also not drinking from kiddush cup someone mentioned. This is one of the worst pet peeves. DH pours off into another cup for him to drink and then gives others.

ectomorph

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 7:12 pm

aliavi wrote:

OP, that’s great that you want to give your guests a comfortable meal and have chosen to prioritize hosting. To me it seems like a grateful way to pay it forward as they say.

I’m like the others that are happy to be invited out. I have a severe food allergy and people are so careful. I appreciate this!! I try to not make a big deal out of it. I won’t starve.

I’ll give a suggestion as a positive. We live where there is snow. I like to offer ladies slippers or socks to put on when taking off boots. I keep spare ponchos for guests and the $1 for two pairs of plain gloves. I offer water bottles for the summer when leaving (make sure it’s appropriate based on guest).

If I had a peeve, I’d say it’s when people put dip directly onto their challah, and not to the plate then challah. Sometimes after biting! It’s not considerate of food allergies either.

can you charge for gloves

Rutabaga

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 7:24 pm

This has only happened to me once so it's not really a pet peeve, but please let your guests know if you serve differently than they might expect. When I was single I once went to a meal where there were tons of dips put out for the first course. I don't love dips and prefer to save my calories for real food so I ate very little. The table was cleared and all that came out for the next course were small individual bowls of cholent. I went home hungry.

My mother always served family style, but she sent out each category at the same time so guests would know what their choices are. IOW, two veggie sides sent out, then two starchy sides, then meat and chicken. That way people could decide if they wanted something as it was passed around without wondering what their other options would be. I try to do that too.

Cheiny

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 7:26 pm

amother wrote:

I grew up with a single mom and was then an older single for many years so I spent many Shabbosim with other families.

While I agree that spending a Shabbos meal with others is about the company, not the food, so many of the things on your list are familiar.

The drinks! Yes. Maybe some people just don't drink much? But when there's one pitcher of water on the table for 15 people, well, that's just uncomfortable.

And regarding the small plates for the salad course, I agree, but I think where people are objecting is because we're talking about different things.

In my circles, first course is challah, dips, salads (several big salads - green salad, kale salad, spinach salad, maybe pasta salad) and gefilte fish or salmon). This is the beginning of the meal where most of the divrei torah/kids parshah sheets are done, all the guests have a lot to discuss, everyone is hungry, and it takes probably the largest chunk timewise. And yes, people eat, and it's meant to be a full course. So we use full plates. I have been to houses who have this same setup but give small salad plates. One spoonful of lettuce salad and the plate is covered. This is not a situation where you're only supposed to take a teaspoonful. But it sounds like some people here have a very different setup, where it's just plain challah with a few dips and not a significant part of the meal. in that case, yes, a small plate is sufficient.

I agree. And I know some people don’t much like the mains and prefer to partake of more of the salads and dips, and when there’s just one small container of each put out for numerous guests, it’s really not enough.

ectomorph

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 7:35 pm

Cheiny wrote:

I'm sorry I think that it's very standard to expect people to take small portions of dips and if you like large portions you should tell the host in advance

Cheiny

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 7:36 pm

nachlaot wrote:

A few things: 1) We were invited to a seudah at someone’s house which was a bit of a walk from our home, on a very hot summer Shabbos. When we walked in, we were horrified to find that their air conditioner was set on a very high temperature and on energy-saver to boot! We were sweating profusely from the walk, and just as we would begin to feel somewhat better, the a/c would shut off and only turn on again when it became unbearably hot. It was miserable.
2) We eat often at someone’s home whose son has zero table manners (he’s age 15), doesn’t use utensils, only his hands (pulls a chicken cutlet or piece of deli roll off the common platter with his hands, then eats it with his fingers, pulling pieces off it and shoving them in his mouth). I’m constantly shocked that his parents don’t try to correct him...they certainly have better manners.

3) One host asks, “Would you like cholent?” We answer, “Yes, please.” She proceeds to dish it out from the crock pot into tiny bowls, and literally gives you 3 teaspoons full and leaves the crock pot on the counter out of reach. Who is she saving it for? I’m not a fan of individual servings on main courses.

Last edited by Cheiny on Sat, Jan 12 2019, 7:50 pm; edited 2 times in total

Cheiny

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 7:38 pm

amother wrote:

You have a lot of good points. I would also add to keep challoh in the center of the table. There is one place I've been where they keep it at a corner by the head of the table, which makes it very uncomfortable asking for more especially if the people near it are heavily involved in conversation.

Agree, especially when the hosts don’t make sure to pass it around again after the fish course!

amother

Mistyrose

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 7:39 pm

amother wrote:

When people make an issue of what/how much guests eat.
DH is extremely picky and he doesn't always eat much when we go out. He'd rather not make an issue of it, though--he knows it's unreasonable to expect hosts to cater to him, and he can eat when we get home. It's embarrassing when hosts harp on it or take it personally. If you absolutely feel you must say something, just say "can I pass you more of anything else?" and leave it alone. It's not personal, and you're not a terrible cook/host.

I'm the same way. I'm vegetarian. I don't tell that to hosts because they assume they have to make a separate main course for me which I definitely don't want. I can fill up on kugel and salad and be content - it's what I would do at home. PLEASE don't watch my plate and insist that I take chicken or cholent.

Cheiny

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 7:39 pm

teachkids wrote:

I know you said you don’t do it this way, but restaurant style is very hard for those of us with food allergies. I have an uncommon allergy that no one would think about, and rarely shows up in more than 1 dish, but is often in one. If you plate my food and that allergen is on it, I can eat maybe 5 bites from the opposite side is the plate.
Maybe plate just the main if you're worried about there not being enough, and let people take their own sides.

Re buffet: I've seen people put the sides/salads on the table after people take firsts so more people take seconds without having to awkwardly leave the table.

Don’t you make your hosts aware of your allergy in advance?

33055

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 7:46 pm

nachlaot wrote:

again, it's not criticism. we're just learning by example and trying to figure out what we like and don't like for our own table -- in order to make our own guests happier.

we're not trashing our hosts to their faces... or behind their backs. this is an anonymous internet forum our hosts aren't being hurt in any way by my post.

if this thread rubs you the wrong way, you don't have to read it!

It is criticism. Mentioning pet peeves for other to improve is criticism. Look at your thead title. How many other communities take outsiders into their homes weekly like this?

When people open up their homes and treat you as family, and you complain on the internet, that shows a lack of gratitude.

As women, we expend a lot of time, effort, and money to make our guests feel welcome. I treat my guests the same as I treat my family. It makes me sad that so many Jews voice so many complaints about people who open up their homes. Why the need to push for more like this?

This thead would not rub me wrong if it had been phrased differently . What have you observed your hostess do that impressed you?

ectomorph

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 7:49 pm

Squishy wrote:

thank you squishy. You expressed it well.

Cheiny

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 7:57 pm

ectomorph wrote:

I'm sorry I think that it's very standard to expect people to take small portions of dips and if you like large portions you should tell the host in advance

That’s not reasonable..,.do you really think someone will tell the host in advance to buy extra dips for them?

MrsDash

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 7:59 pm

Squishy wrote:

Agreed. People have become ungrateful little brats.

sra

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 8:03 pm

a) don't serve individual portions. the guests then feel uncomfortable if the portion is too big/ or small! b) center the conversation around them!

amother

Navy

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 8:30 pm

Please don't shout at your children when I'm there. It's painful to watch.

Ema of 5

Sat, Jan 12 2019, 8:36 pm

nachlaot wrote:

hi, what are some minor things that other hosts do that annoy you, that you try to avoid doing at your own shabbat meals?

we're BTs and we got set up with meals at many different families when we were becoming religious. now what we're hosting meals ourselves, it turned out to be very useful to go to so many different tables and figure out what we liked and didn't like, what works and doesn't work, etc.

the purpose of my question isn't to criticize other hosts. it's to get ideas of little things that are important to guests, so we can improve our shabbats.

I'll start with a few little things that annoyed us at other shabbat tables that don't do with our meals:

- not having enough beverages on the table, especially water. if you're at the end of the table, you don't want to have to keep asking people to pass the water. even worse, you don't want to have to keep awkwardly asking people to pass the wine and seem like a drunkard. we usually host about 8 people, and put at least three bottles of seltzer and two pitchers of flat water and at least two open bottles of wine out on the table, and we're replacing them as they go empty. water is free, seltzer (sodastream) is very cheap. no reason not to have these in abundance.
While I agree that there should be drinks at both ends of the table, it’s not always advisable or halachickly acceptable to have wine spread out all over the table. We have occasionally had guests become quite drunk because of the easy access. Also, there are halachos about mevushal and non mevushal wine, and people who are not shiner shabbos. I’m not saying everyone holds this way, but there are people who do.

- using tiny plates for the dips/appetizers/salad/fish course. some hosts have an amazing spread with many great apps, salads, etc. and 10 different things going around the table, but their plates are so tiny that you can only put a few lettuce leaves on the plate. we use full-size disposable plates, just as for the main meal.
We use real plates for all meals. I have no problem taking a little bit at a time, rather than stuffing my plate. I don’t know if anyone would ever say anything, but I’ve never had someone look like refilling their plate was uncomfortable.

- not having giving drinkers separate cups for water and wine. people drinking wine still want water. we just put down a wine glass and a regular glass at every seat. it could even be two cheap plastic glasses.
This I agree with, but I don’t put them out at the beginning of the meal. I wait to see who is drinking. When I remember, I put some shot cups in the middle of the table as well, depending on who we are having.

- "go around the table and say something" icebreakers. we find these annoying. people who like to talk just go on and on, or use it as an excuse to brag. either everyone else sits there bored, or side conversations develop and nobody's listening by the time it goes around the table. instead of an icebreaker, at the beginning of the meal, we quickly introduce everyone and say how we know them.
I’m with you in this!!!! I am SO not comfortable with this!!!! Also, making people say divrei torah....

- telling guests "we have more of X in the kitchen and just ask if I should bring out more X." you made a ton of food for your guests to enjoy -- just bring it out! nobody wants to awkwardly ask for more and seem like the pig. we either put everything out or are proactive about refilling stuff.
I disagree again. If I make too much of something (which usually happens) or how much I made is too much for the serving dish, I will leave in the kitchen and refill as needed.

- not making sure serving dishes are getting passed around. sometimes there's a natural bottleneck. sometimes a guest is inconsiderate and just puts 5 different dishes down in front of him/her and doesn't get the concept of "take and pass." the host should keep an eye to make sure everything is moving.
I always make sure to scatter the serving dishes when serving. I do occasionally have to remind people to pass, but it’s usually the same couple of people.

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