S/O Pet peeves guests do

33055

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 7:01 pm

amother wrote:

I’m surprised that no one has asked this yet....

How does the whole bare legs thing work? We have over a dozen guests every shabbos and neither my husband nor myself would notice if a woman’s legs weren’t covered, and we belong to a “legs covered” sect of orthodoxy and have guests of all backgrounds. It Would seem to me that a man on the madreiga of not making a bracha in in their presence wouldn’t be in the habit of noticing women’s legs. I cover my legs and would be exceedingly uncomfortable if I thought someone was checking them out. So how does that work without it being totally creepy?

There is a difference between noticing if someone has bare legs and checking out said bare legs. A creepy guy would notice if they were nice legs or less than nice legs. A mench would only notice if the legs were covered. You don't have to stare at legs to see if they are bare or covered.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 7:05 pm

Squishy wrote:

The difference between bare and skin color tights is minimal. One does need to be apprising them up and down in order to notice. (Which for a woman talking to woman is normal to notice. Not for a man who is makpid not to gaze at women and check them out.)

Emotional

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 7:07 pm

Guests who turn the conversation into their own personal pity party.
Guests who open the medicine cabinet in my bathroom and then come out and comment on what they find in there. (I had a sister in-law do that!)
Guests who criticize our parenting styles. (My brother-in-law did that, as did a "friend" of mine)

Last edited by Emotional on Sun, Jan 13 2019, 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 7:08 pm

I've also never heard that a man can't say a bracha in front of uncovered legs, unless the knees or above are uncovered and within his range of view while making the bracha.

amother

Slateblue

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 7:09 pm

If you don’t want her to take or take too much then don’t put it out til you want them to take and/or only put out part so if someone takes it all there’s more to serve

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 7:26 pm

Squishy wrote:

Yes, but then you have to specifically look to know. And that seems less Tznius than just going ahead and making a bracha and not noticing what everyone is wearing. My husband couldn’t tell you what anyone at the table is wearing, much less whether their legs are covered. Maybe because that’s what I’m used to, but I think that’s the classiest way to operate.

amother

Gray

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 7:43 pm

To all of you who have strangers sleep over for Pesach...wow! Kol hakavod. I never heard of that. In my community we might host a couple for Shabbat who are coming to check out our neighborhood, or give out a guest room to my neighbors parents who are visiting but I don’t think I ever heard of hosting a family I never met for sleeping and eating over a chag, especially Pesach.
I’m exhausted reading this thread.

33055

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 8:05 pm

amother wrote:

We do things because that how our Rabbis tells us to do things not because it is classy. What is wrong with respecting how things are done in my house when in my house? I don't ask you to adopt what we do but merely to respect it when visiting.

Sing with men or have bare legs when in your house. I won't judge you and say that you aren't classy. You are different.

FTR, I think nylons are classier than bare legs.

amother

Wheat

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 8:11 pm

You cant tell when I wear stockings. I wear 8-12 denier. Aftet asking and okaying with my Rabbi. Believe me you cant tell.

I know because the only reason I wear the tights I do is because I once asked the following to a girl in an ice cream shop "excuse me. Im going to sound very rude, but I cant help it. Ive been trying to figure out if youre wearing stockings or not. Not judging, I just love the way it looks so natural-if you are wearing stockongs can you tell me what brand?" And so she did. And thats what I wear now

amother

Coral

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 8:14 pm

Squishy wrote:

Do you give out a dress code for your guests? Sounds like you invite people who would be clueless to your dissatisfaction with their leg coverings.

and frankly - that women shouldn't sing.

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 8:27 pm

Squishy wrote:

I think you misunderstood me. I wear stockings and would only be at people’s shabbos tables in stockings. The classy part was referring to looking at what other people are wearing. I’d certainly find it creepy if my husband was looking at women’s legs to determine whether they are suitable for his bracha, and I have no interest in checking it out to report to him if need be.

I’d rather someone be able to enjoy a shabbos meal that they wouldn’t otherwise experience than get hung up on what is covering their legs. Which again, I don’t even notice to know one way or another. Same for my husband. I guess win-win; we don’t end up feeling disrespected.

33055

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 9:15 pm

amother wrote:

Do you give out a dress code for your guests? Sounds like you invite people who would be clueless to your dissatisfaction with their leg coverings.

and frankly - that women shouldn't sing.

I give a dress code to the extent their legs must be covered. If they aren't comfortable, then there are other houses that are better suited for them. The truth is that no one ever objected or canceled because I mentioned this. I only had one person with a chip on her shoulders show up with bare legs. She was brought up in a chassidish home and knows what is proper. She was a friend of a friend and I nicely mentioned it to guest of my friend when her friend asked if she could come. They asked in person, so I was able to speak to the guest.

Everyone around me "knows" women don't sing in front of men.

33055

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 9:27 pm

amother wrote:

That's what works for you in your house. In my house, I follow what DH wants. That's the end of the story. I could care less if DH notices a women's bare legs. This is what he is taught, and I can respect that.

The interesting thing is he never notices necklines, sheitals, elbows, makeup, jewelry or outfits.

33055

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 9:30 pm

amother wrote:

I can tell who is wearing stockings or not. Maybe because I wear sheer myself. It's a different look than skin.

abound

Mon, Jan 14 2019, 1:28 am

amother wrote:

At kiddush, you are either standing next to the table or sitting down. In both cases, the lower leg is not visible. Why make a big deal out of this?

so not the point........Her husband likes it that way, she tells her guest in advance and it is only correct to follow her house rules.
If the rule in my house is only slippers in the house, then don't walk in with your shoes across the dining room floor.....even if you don't get it.
If the rule in my house is that everyone washes their hands with soap the second they walk in........do it or don't come.
If I Have no rules then come and enjoy the freedom!

Mayflower

Mon, Jan 14 2019, 2:06 am

This is an interesting thread. Didn't read every post so maybe this was mentioned, but I like it when guests come on time.

Of course, if they go to a different shul they may come 15 minutes later than we get home, but I've had guests showing up VERY late, for no reason.

Once we waited and waited until we decided to make kiddush. I figured our guest (a divorced man by himself) was probably not feeling well or something... Then, just as I was about to serve dessert, we hear a knock on our door. He didn't seem to realize he was REALLY late (we have long meals, so it was probably about 2 and half hours after my husband came home), made kiddush for himself and we could redo the whole seuda... challah, fish, soup, ... Not OK.

amother

Pearl

Mon, Jan 14 2019, 2:43 am

I've posted extensively about my vegan, non-vaxx guests who changed diapers on my sofa after pleading with them not to and hosed their kid's poo off in my shower, so I won't go down that road again....

I live in a community mainly comprised of Dati Leumi and we're chabadnikim. I've had a fair few insulting comments. From a woman who told me at the table that her husband would never allow her wear 'that thing' (my sheitel) because it's so immodest to an older gentleman who referred to the Rebbe as "that hairy guy over there" (pointing at a picture). Last week we had my husband's chevruta over (he works with an organization which matches students who get scholarships to invest in their yiddishkeit with people who already made tshuva a few years ago). And the student gave my husband a lecture on how chabad aren't zionist and think the Rebbe is the moshiach and that they're all nuts. It was awkward. He was the only guest at the table with the children and continued arguing so long that I fell asleep on the couch beside the table with my kids.

Last edited by amother on Tue, May 12 2020, 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total

gingertop

Mon, Jan 14 2019, 3:10 am

Israeli_C wrote:

) And the student gave my husband a lecture on how chabad aren't zionist and think the Rebbe is the moshiach and that they're all nuts. It was awkward. He was the only guest at the table with the children and continued arguing so long that I fell asleep on the couch beside the table with my kids.

I never had a guest as obnoxious as yours, but I do hate when people argue about our way of life when we are freaking hosting them. It's just bad middos. Especially when you see we're not interested in rehashing all of this and these people just carry on.

There are people who are missing the social graces to realize that a topic they chose is not comfortable and they lack the ability to change the topic. And even when others try to change the topic for them, they keep on with their "brilliant" analyses.

amother

Pearl

Mon, Jan 14 2019, 3:31 am

gingertop wrote:

Yes!! I've seen this on a worse level at the local shaliach's shabbat table, as he brings together lots of different people from all kinds of backgrounds and sometimes it really backfires. Like be brought two yeshiva bochurim and a middle aged divorced guy started ripping them apart because they should be serving in the army "and what good is it sitting and learning all day"? It was particularly annoying because that guy was an oleh chadash who never served a day in the army himself but felt comfortable telling others what they should be doing.

Last edited by amother on Tue, May 12 2020, 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total