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-> Parenting our children
-> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)
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amother
Red
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 Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:10 pm
my son just turned 5 a couple weeks ago.
about a year ago I realized he wasn't typical.
he asks a million questions, thinks about things most kids dont think of, seems very interested in math, and started sounding out words and letters very early. He also seems to have many of the characteristics I read about that gifted children have such as being stubborn, leadership skills, being high strung, excellent memory, and a thirst to always learn more.
Once I realized how quick his mind was, I taught him to read. He picked it up super fast and now reads on a 1st-2nd grade level. This was over the course of maybe 2 months. He went from a non reader to 1st-2nd grade level.
He started to read his older brother's Chumash homework so I showed him the nekudos and now he is reading Hebrew on his own 3 days later. He just got it and went with it. I barely did anything.
He remembers how to write all his ABC letters and started asking me to show him how to write in Hebrew.
I don't know what to do. He is in nursery school and is academically ready for second grade. Emotionally though, he is very much a preschooler and needs to be with other 4-5 year olds. In addition, he is very small physically and skipping him a grade wouldn't be good for him since he is already one of the smallest kids in his grade. Besides, skipping him to kindergarten wouldn't even do anything. He is ready for second grade. I cant put a kid who just turned 5 in a class with 8 year olds.
I can keep teaching him on my own but what good does that do? By the end of the school year he will be ready for 5th grade. He will be so so bored.
Those of you with kids like this, what do you recommend? I tried teaching him other things like parsha and navi but its not enough for him. He wants to know how to do it himself. He doesnt want to just hear stories. He keeps asking me math questions. Should I teach him multiplication and division or am I setting him up to be bored in school? Should I show him Rashi letters so he can read Rashi on his own?
What do I do?
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ectomorph
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:14 pm
In my opinion he'll be bored anyway you might as well teach him.
Start thinking about good academic options for him if you live in a place with a choice of schools otherwise try to invest in their relationships with the people who run the school in your area
Good luck you're going to need it
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amother
Red
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:22 pm
| ectomorph wrote: | In my opinion he'll be bored anyway you might as well teach him.
Start thinking about good academic options for him if you live in a place with a choice of schools otherwise try to invest in their relationships with the people who run the school in your area
Good luck you're going to need it |
that was my thought. Even if I don't teach him, he will grasp the concept after a few minutes while the rest of the class is still learning so what difference does it make? But then either way I am back at square 1.
I can switch him to another school. I am not opposed to that if its good for him but like I said, a school will skip him one grade at most. He needs to spend a month or two in 2nd grade and he is probably on his way to 3rd. 5 year olds cant be in 2nd grade no matter how smart they are. He is still a baby and often very much acts his age.
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amother
Burlywood
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:28 pm
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Don't teach him what school will teach him, find other ways to learn together (or independently). Often kids get into a certain topics for a period, then move on to something else. Encourage him to find a topic of interest- planets, biology, electricity, animals, ocean life, plants, history, maps. The possibilities are endless. Get lots of books on that topic, do experiments, make it completely immersive. Let his school experience for now be about developing the social/ emotional skills he needs at this age. That's what all five year olds should be doing anyway. You don't have to hold him back in learning, just focus on learning different material from what he'll encounter in the next couple of years at school.
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amother
Rose
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:29 pm
My dd was like that at 4-5. She’s six now and is very happy in first grade. Once she was able to read chapter books she spends hours every day reading and doesn’t get bored. She enjoys the social aspects of school and the work even if she gets it before the other kids.
I think you should teach him now when he’s interested and figure out the future when it comes.
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amother
Red
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:32 pm
| amother wrote: | | Don't teach him what school will teach him, find other ways to learn together (or independently). Often kids get into a certain topics for a period, then move on to something else. Encourage him to find a topic of interest- planets, biology, electricity, animals, ocean life, plants, history, maps. The possibilities are endless. Get lots of books on that topic, do experiments, make it completely immersive. Let his school experience for now be about developing the social/ emotional skills he needs at this age. That's what all five year olds should be doing anyway. You don't have to hold him back in learning, just focus on learning different material from what he'll encounter in the next couple of years at school. |
I could try that but he is still clamoring for the basics. He wants to know everything. I am so exhausted.
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amother
Red
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:34 pm
| amother wrote: | My dd was like that at 4-5. She’s six now and is very happy in first grade. Once she was able to read chapter books she spends hours every day reading and doesn’t get bored. She enjoys the social aspects of school and the work even if she gets it before the other kids.
I think you should teach him now when he’s interested and figure out the future when it comes. |
This is what I want to hear. Thank you!
I am hoping that once he is reading chapter books he can self entertain and I can just go to the library and get him 30 books a week and call it a day.
how was she with Hebrew? Did you have boredom challenges there?
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amother
Tan
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:34 pm
| amother wrote: | | Don't teach him what school will teach him, find other ways to learn together (or independently). Often kids get into a certain topics for a period, then move on to something else. Encourage him to find a topic of interest- planets, biology, electricity, animals, ocean life, plants, history, maps. The possibilities are endless. Get lots of books on that topic, do experiments, make it completely immersive. Let his school experience for now be about developing the social/ emotional skills he needs at this age. That's what all five year olds should be doing anyway. You don't have to hold him back in learning, just focus on learning different material from what he'll encounter in the next couple of years at school. |
This. I have a gifted child who is emotionally on the lower end for his age. (Though socially he does very nicely). At 5 I bought him his first pair of wire cutters and he built circuits. I let him explore different things to what they were learning in school. He is now in 5th grade and his interests are in technology,current events and aviation.
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amother
Rose
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:37 pm
| amother wrote: | This is what I want to hear. Thank you!
I am hoping that once he is reading chapter books he can self entertain and I can just go to the library and get him 30 books a week and call it a day.
how was she with Hebrew? Did you have boredom challenges there? |
She was reading Hebrew fluently while her class slowly learned letters and then nekudos and words. But the Morahs teach with games and activities and she never seemed bored. They tried to also work with her and give her harder things to practice. We worked with her to improve her fluency at home and also I gave her pre-Chumash workbooks.
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OutATowner
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:37 pm
Like someone posted above, can you get him involved in a science based topic? Then get him a kit of some sort for him to be busy with. Can you involve him in activities that develop fine motor skills? Even extremely bright kids need to work on that. If you can get how to books from the library, and some materials, he can be both busy and productive.
Hatzlacha!
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:39 pm
I disagree with your whole premise. Where a kid belongs grade wise has some to do with academics, but not much. Speaking as a mother of gifted/brilliant/smart/different kids and as an individual who herself skipped and as a mother who only skipped one child because of logistics and not intellect alone, your kid will always be smart. It doesn't matter what grade they go into. If they process quickly, they process quickly no matter the grade.
Far more important is the emotional and social aspect and where the kid is holding there. There is also a matter of executive functioning that can develop on par with other kids the age but be at a disadvantage when a kid is skipped too much. The discrepancies in those areas can do far more harm than any perceived benefits from advancing grades. There are life skills that are also taught in the grades that are not purely academic.
I have a gifted kid who I didn't skip and struggles in areas (99th percentile on national tests don't correlate with success in school necessarily). I have a brilliant kid who I skipped for logistical reasons but he is extremely socially suave and it was the best thing ever. He's still scoring at the top of his new class. (Part of his psychological evaluation to enter that grade involved a conversation where the school psychologist was concerned about his size because he's small and was speaking about sports like it mattered to him -- but he has so much self-confidence that it doesn't matter to him if he is good or not at the game, so they let him through.) I have a kid who is the youngest in her grade and technically shouldn't be there but the school put her there anyway and she's still scoring in the 99th percentile despite not being at her appropriate grade level but she's the smallest and doesn't seem to be as socially connected as some of her classmates (she's not behind, but she's not having playdates left and right like some others). I have a bright kid who I considered holding back for emotional reasons but I think he'll be ready to move up to first grade now, working on lots of self-confidence has helped.
All my kids picked up reading on their own. I have yet another kid not mentioned here who was reading her newsletters when she entered kindergarten straight from playgroup, without ever officially learning ABCs. She's doing amazing in the class she is supposed to be in and it's great for her middos to be able to help others. My daughter mentioned in the paragraph above went from not reading to reading chapter books (and not the easy reader kind) in a couple of months as well like your son. It's just the way these kids are. Let them shine in their class and not feel a discrepancy in other areas as mentioned. They definitely will need the school to support them though. I have yet another daughter I didn't mention yet who is "smart as a whip" (teachers' wording) but definitely can be disruptive if not engaged properly and good teachers have learned how to keep her stimulated and work with her more problematic behaviors (usually done out of boredom, but not always).
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amother
Red
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:48 pm
| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: | I disagree with your whole premise. Where a kid belongs grade wise has some to do with academics, but not much. Speaking as a mother of gifted/brilliant/smart/different kids and as an individual who herself skipped and as a mother who only skipped one child because of logistics and not intellect alone, your kid will always be smart. It doesn't matter what grade they go into. If they process quickly, they process quickly no matter the grade.
Far more important is the emotional and social aspect and where the kid is holding there. There is also a matter of executive functioning that can develop on par with other kids the age but be at a disadvantage when a kid is skipped too much. The discrepancies in those areas can do far more harm than any perceived benefits from advancing grades. There are life skills that are also taught in the grades that are not purely academic.
I have a gifted kid who I didn't skip and struggles in areas (99th percentile on national tests don't correlate with success in school necessarily). I have a brilliant kid who I skipped for logistical reasons but he is extremely socially suave and it was the best thing ever. He's still scoring at the top of his new class. (Part of his psychological evaluation to enter that grade involved a conversation where the school psychologist was concerned about his size because he's small and was speaking about sports like it mattered to him -- but he has so much self-confidence that it doesn't matter to him if he is good or not at the game, so they let him through.) I have a kid who is the youngest in her grade and technically shouldn't be there but the school put her there anyway and she's still scoring in the 99th percentile despite not being at her appropriate grade level but she's the smallest and doesn't seem to be as socially connected as some of her classmates (she's not behind, but she's not having playdates left and right like some others). I have a bright kid who I considered holding back for emotional reasons but I think he'll be ready to move up to first grade now, working on lots of self-confidence has helped.
All my kids picked up reading on their own. I have yet another kid not mentioned here who was reading her newsletters when she entered kindergarten straight from playgroup, without ever officially learning ABCs. She's doing amazing in the class she is supposed to be in and it's great for her middos to be able to help others. My daughter mentioned in the paragraph above went from not reading to reading chapter books (and not the easy reader kind) in a couple of months as well like your son. It's just the way these kids are. Let them shine in their class and not feel a discrepancy in other areas as mentioned. They definitely will need the school to support them though. I have yet another daughter I didn't mention yet who is "smart as a whip" (teachers' wording) but definitely can be disruptive if not engaged properly and good teachers have learned how to keep her stimulated and work with her more problematic behaviors (usually done out of boredom, but not always). |
that is exactly my point. skipping him would be useless. he would just catch up to wherever the class is and then be bored again.
I am worried about him becoming a behavior problem if he is so bored. In addition, he is in a very large boys school not in NY and there arent too many options for him. The school is not known to be very helpful when it comes to gifted children but that might just be hearsay. I never actually approached them. I have this aversion to labeling my kid for some reason and I am being very quiet about this in real life.
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amother
Red
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:49 pm
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I wish there were programs that could be brought into yeshiva's for kids like this. we have resource rooms. Why not gifted programs?
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amother
Red
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:50 pm
| amother wrote: | | She was reading Hebrew fluently while her class slowly learned letters and then nekudos and words. But the Morahs teach with games and activities and she never seemed bored. They tried to also work with her and give her harder things to practice. We worked with her to improve her fluency at home and also I gave her pre-Chumash workbooks. |
where did you buy these workbooks?
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amother
cornflower
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 9:54 pm
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You are describing my 5 year old son, except that he is much more advanced (reading at 6th grade level, performing at 3rd grade math). It's a big challenge, since emotionally he is behind his peers. The school is very good with accommodating his weaknesses, but not his strengths. When you figure out a solution, then please let me know
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amother
Taupe
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 10:05 pm
In terms of evaluating schools, you're not looking for a school to skip him- you want one that sees each kid as an individual. You want one where the teachers will give him a different worksheet with a little guidance, or pull him out for math, but still see him as the age he is. Also...
Make lots of playdates. Now. Sign him up for an activity or two. You need to encourage and put the building blocks in for social relationships, because wth kids like this, it can be an issue. The more practice he has with others, including talking to them about their interests and playing outside, etc, the better.
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amother
Red
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 10:07 pm
| amother wrote: | | You are describing my 5 year old son, except that he is much more advanced (reading at 6th grade level, performing at 3rd grade math). It's a big challenge, since emotionally he is behind his peers. The school is very good with accommodating his weaknesses, but not his strengths. When you figure out a solution, then please let me know |
So socially and emotionally he fits in with his classmates so the school will probably ignore him. It seems schools can help with problems but not gifts.
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amother
Red
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 10:09 pm
| amother wrote: | In terms of evaluating schools, you're not looking for a school to skip him- you want one that sees each kid as an individual. You want one where the teachers will give him a different worksheet with a little guidance, or pull him out for math, but still see him as the age he is. Also...
Make lots of playdates. Now. Sign him up for an activity or two. You need to encourage and put the building blocks in for social relationships, because wth kids like this, it can be an issue. The more practice he has with others, including talking to them about their interests and playing outside, etc, the better. |
Socially he is fine. I'm just worried academically.
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amother
Pewter
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 11:14 pm
| amother wrote: | | I wish there were programs that could be brought into yeshiva's for kids like this. we have resource rooms. Why not gifted programs? |
when I was in school, there were a couple girls in the class who I guess I can call them gifted or a little bit smarter than everybody else. They always went out of class and learned on a higher level. they also had different books and activities books to do when they were bored in class.
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amother
Mint
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Mon, Jan 14 2019, 11:26 pm
OP, don't assume that just because your five-year-old picked up reading quickly, he'll be on a fifth grade level in a few months. Don't even assume that because he's reading on a first-second grade level in English, he belongs in second grade. To belong in second grade academically, he would have to be fluent in Hebrew reading and translating and capable of learning Chumash on a second grade level; reading on a second grade level; doing math on a second grade level; and in general, having second grade level critical thinking skills. Only the reading is coming through in your post.
I don't mean to burst your bubble, but in the early ages, development can be unevenly paced. It's possible that your son will be reading college-level texts and doing advanced calculus by the time he's eight, and it's possible (and more likely) that at some point, things will sort of level off.
For now, if you're not considering changing schools anyway, just continue to nurture him and his interests and keep an eye on his academic and social development.
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