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Proof of excellence in Yeshiva education, even Chassidish
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 1:40 pm
https://www.vosizneias.com/314.....udit-exam/

This will no doubt anger Moster, and put the lie to his vengeful agenda.
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 1:56 pm
Somehow this post made me laugh.
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keym




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:05 pm
I really have no skin in this game because I'm not Chassidish and don't live in New York. But a few things faulty with this logic.

1) this man went to school with 2-3 hours of secular studies in elementary school and 1-1.5 hours in high school. That may or may not be enough, but its definitely sufficient for basic 3 Rs. Parents who complain, their kids get much less to none.

2) you cannot use 1 such man as an example. He is an exception and not the average. For every man like him, there are 30,40 who are struggling without the basic skills to feed their family.

It is more impressive, or a "shtuch" if you will if 85/90% of a given class gets above say 1000 on SATs rather than the one student who gets a 1600.
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:07 pm
keym wrote:
I really have no skin in this game because I'm not Chassidish and don't live in New York. But a few things faulty with this logic.

1) this man went to school with 2-3 hours of secular studies in elementary school and 1-1.5 hours in high school. That may or may not be enough, but its definitely sufficient for basic 3 Rs. Parents who complain, their kids get much less to none.

2) you cannot use 1 such man as an example. He is an exception and not the average. For every man like him, there are 30,40 who are struggling without the basic skills to feed their family.

It is more impressive, or a "shtuch" if you will if 85/90% of a given class gets above say 1000 on SATs rather than the one student who gets a 1600.


We most certainly can use him as an example; he IS one. And there are many more stories like him. Yeshiva students score much higher than public school students overall on regents and test scores in general. What Moster did was offensive and dishonest, and highly detrimental to the frum community, not to mention a horrible public Chillul Hashem.
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keym




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:15 pm
I might agree that Moster did something wrong etc. But that does NOT mean that the education at Chassidishe Yeshivos is excellent.
Why can't we use as proof, the many husbands of Imamothers who cannot read or write in English, cannot write checks, and have no spelling to speak of.

Let's use one or many of them and headline it "Proof of the Extreme Inadequateness of Chassidish Yeshiva Education". Its the same proof.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:25 pm
Omg. That is proof of nothing. My brother happened to have scored between 95-100 on all his regents, in the 1400s on his SATs, and he was valedictorian in college (out of 100s of students.) However, it was not because of his education, but in spite of his education. And the school he went to was probably 100 times better then these chassidish schools. Out of his class of 25, only 4 boys passed the regents, and the other 3 got in the 60s. So who should we use as proof? Him or the other 24 boys. And like I mentioned, his schools education is from the “higher end” being that they actually taught secular studies at all.
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amother




Tangerine


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:29 pm
This is proof of nothing. My brother went to a school which taught no english at all. He is now in one of the top medical schools in the world. I'm sure we all know someone like that.
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amother




Honeydew


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:32 pm
So why aren’t there more of him?
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:36 pm
Cheiny wrote:
We most certainly can use him as an example; he IS one. And there are many more stories like him. Yeshiva students score much higher than public school students overall on regents and test scores in general. What Moster did was offensive and dishonest, and highly detrimental to the frum community, not to mention a horrible public Chillul Hashem.


Do you have proof of this statement?
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watergirl




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:37 pm
amother wrote:
So why aren’t there more of him?

Because cases like these are the rarity, not the generality.
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:45 pm
Chayalle wrote:
Do you have proof of this statement?


Yes, if you’ve read up on all the articles regarding the Agudah’s and other Jewish organizations/Rabbis/Roshei Yeshiva who responded to the DOE on this issue, they did have statistics which showed overall Yeshiva scores much higher than public schools.
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:46 pm
watergirl wrote:
Because cases like these are the rarity, not the generality.


As I cited before, that’s not borne out by the numbers. Yeshivas overall did better than public schools on grades.
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keym




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:50 pm
Yeshivas who have a secular education?
Or Chassidish Yeshivas that have no secular education?
Because the premise of your statement is that all Chassidish Yeshivas are sufficient because Litvishe yeshivas perform decently or really well.
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exaustedmom




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:51 pm
Cheiny wrote:
As I cited before, that’s not borne out by the numbers. Yeshivas overall did better than public schools on grades.


Only the ones who actually seriously teach English did well. Many yeshivas don't teach the minimum required
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:55 pm
Cheiny wrote:
Yes, if you’ve read up on all the articles regarding the Agudah’s and other Jewish organizations/Rabbis/Roshei Yeshiva who responded to the DOE on this issue, they did have statistics which showed overall Yeshiva scores much higher than public schools.


What Keym said about that.
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amother




Plum


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:55 pm
Cheiny wrote:
https://www.vosizneias.com/314362/2019/01/15/jerusalem-chasidic-man-who-grew-up-in-borough-park-earns-high-score-on-israels-cpa-audit-exam/

This will no doubt anger Moster, and put the lie to his vengeful agenda.

He didn't receive a secular education past lower grade school. LOL He's smart, that's it. What does his story prove about chassidish schools? Nothing, lol. It proves that Mr. Abramowitz is smart *despite* no education.
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:56 pm
Rabbi Akiva had no Torah education until he was forty, and he became the gadol hador. Maybe we don't need to bother teaching our children Torah?

Exceptional people are exceptional. There will be kids who get a wonderful education but don't accomplish much, and there will be kids who get terrible educations who go on to great academic achievement. But overwhelmingly, education correlates with achievement and earning power.
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amother




White


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 2:58 pm
Cheiny wrote:
As I cited before, that’s not borne out by the numbers. Yeshivas overall did better than public schools on grades.


So you're saying that yeshivas that don't teach English had better scores on the English Regents than did public schools?

Same for science and math.
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 3:02 pm
keym wrote:
Yeshivas who have a secular education?
Or Chassidish Yeshivas that have no secular education?
Because the premise of your statement is that ALL CHASSIDISH YESHIVAS are sufficient because Litvishe yeshivas perform decently or really well.


Please reread what I said. I never said or suggested “all.”
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amother




White


Post  Tue, Jan 15 2019, 3:07 pm
Cheiny wrote:
Please reread what I said. I never said or suggested “all.”


So what you're saying is that the schools that offer a secular education generally do a decent job of it.

But that says nothing about the schools that don't offer a secular education.
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