Proof of excellence in Yeshiva education, even Chassidish

amother

Orange

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 11:43 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Ok, orange, since you started....

There are some interesting assumptions that you have made here on this thread which are showcasing your faulty reasoning as well.

Assumption number one: that because my brother had a subpar secular education I did too. I'll let you think about that one. (And in fact, I went to more than one school over the years, one was Chassidish an one was not. The Chassidish school was on a way higher level than the other school I went to, just BTW).

Assumption number two: that because my brother is a genius I am a genius as well. Hm... that would be nice, it sort of rubs off by osmosis, I guess... But in actual fact, he is much, much smarter than me.

Assumption number three: that I do not have a college education. In fact I do. I suggest that you write to my alma mater that they have made a mistake in allowing me to graduate with a near perfect GPA and with honors and awards....

As far as logic....

You previously posted that you worked in four schools and you found that they all cheated. You must have missed the statistics class in your superior college education, as it is well known that a case study of four is not enough to be statistically significant, even putting aside for a moment that the study would be flawed from it's conception as the schools you worked for were not randomly selected at all.

Another flaw - you state that you are able to work in a field that you like because your husband's superior college education allows him to make enough money to allow you to work at a job you enjoy - implying that those who do not have a college degree do not make as much money. Besides for the fact that I personally know some who probably make more than your husband, you yourself pointed out that there are many in the Chassidish community who do, in fact, make lots of money - at least that's what you said.

Another point - responding to a different poster who said that it is not possible for a seven year old to score on a tenth grade level - you see, amother orange just said that her own son scored similarly. So it is obviously possible.

I didn't make the assumptions you said I made. I promise you, I never thought you were genius level for a moment.

See above for my reasoning why I think your education is subpar.

I don't doubt you have a college degree. Your thinking I doubt you relates to the first 3 sentences of my answer and the entirety of your post I am quoting.

I never said that my observations in the schools could be universally applied. TBH, I was shocked by the academic cheating in each school. I was not shocked at all by the FBI raids. They were coming. I think if you are dishonest in one area of running a school, it shows a tendency to be dishonest in other areas. That my own belief.

I will add that in my own experience and the experience of others who teach college level courses, they are dummied down in the Jewish schools. I have spoken to colleagues outside my school and outside my geographic area.

Your reasoning about me saying my husband makes money because he has a good education implies that others who don't have a good education don't is bizarre. I never said there aren't richer people than us without education. There are even non-educated non-Jews who are wealthy.

I agree with your last paragraph. The poster is not aware that this is how the test scores are presented.

amother

Orange

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 11:44 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Which community college online catalog did you get these courses from? Please link, thank you.

Yes, he could teach some of them (you can guess which ones), and again, I never said without preparation.

Your story is changing. You said any without prep .

Ravenclaw

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 11:49 am

Gosh can everyone leave mommyg8 alone?!
She made an exaggerated claim, I doubt she meant people to take it so seriously. Get over it, and let’s return to the topic on hand.

Mommyg8

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 11:54 am

amother wrote:

Your story is changing. You said any without prep .

Quote it.

You can't, because I never said it.

Last edited by Mommyg8 on Sun, Jan 20 2019, 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mommyg8

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 12:08 pm

amother wrote:

I didn't make the assumptions you said I made. I promise you, I never thought you were genius level for a moment.

Well, I don't think you are a genius either. So that makes us even Very Happy

amother wrote:

See above for my reasoning why I think your education is subpar.

Your reasoning? Us dummies need to have things explained to us simply...

amother wrote:

I don't doubt you have a college degree. Your thinking I doubt you relates to the first 3 sentences of my answer and the entirety of your post I am quoting.

I never said that my observations in the schools could be universally applied. TBH, I was shocked by the academic cheating in each school. I was not shocked at all by the FBI raids. They were coming. I think if you are dishonest in one area of running a school, it shows a tendency to be dishonest in other areas. That my own belief.

I will add that in my own experience and the experience of others who teach college level courses, they are dummied down in the Jewish schools. I have spoken to colleagues outside my school and outside my geographic area.

As someone who has subpar reasoning, I'm getting the impression that you think that I took college classes in a Jewish school. If that was your assumption, that would be faulty assumption number four, because I did, in fact, not go to a "Jewish" college. I did not even have any Jewish people in most of my classes, let alone frum ones. (BTW there is just as much cheating there).

Also, I'm curious how you were able to compare the Jewish college courses to the non-Jewish ones. Did you take classes in each? Besides, what do you mean by a "Jewish" college? Touro? Stern? And compared to which college which is NOT dumbed down? Please name names, I am really curious.

amother wrote:

Your reasoning about me saying my husband makes money because he has a good education implies that others who don't have a good education don't is bizarre. I never said there aren't richer people than us without education. There are even non-educated non-Jews who are wealthy.

It was not reasoning. It was what you actually said. My reasoning skills may be deficient, but I actually DO know how to read.

amother wrote:

I agree with your last paragraph. The poster is not aware that this is how the test scores are presented.

Ok.

Mommyg8

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 12:31 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

Gosh can everyone leave mommyg8 alone?!
She made an exaggerated claim, I doubt she meant people to take it so seriously. Get over it, and let’s return to the topic on hand.

I happen not to be exaggerating, but honestly even if I was there was no call for the personal attacks I got here on this thread.

But just to explain logically how this would be possible -

I am sure you all know children who can read the textbook the first day of class and be able to spit back the whole thing. So why is it so hard to believe that someone I know read all the textbooks and taught himself on his own? And he happened to have access to college textbooks as a child and teenager. He read them. He also read the encyclopedia. So be now has college level and enyclopedic understanding of many subjects.... why is that so difficult to believe?

amother

Navy

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 1:35 pm

You did pretty much imply he could teach just about any subject with no prep when you stated he had the ability to walk in and start teaching any college level course....
That being said, I believe it is definitely possible for a small percentage of truly brilliant people to become self educated by reading, etc. But that's the minority, not the majority.

amother

Orange

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 1:39 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Ok.

You say things that aren't true. You deny things you said. If I quote your posts and mine, will you apologize for wasting my time when I prove you said things you are denying and I didn't say things you are claiming I said?

Mommyg8

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 1:58 pm

amother wrote:

You did pretty much imply he could teach just about any subject with no prep when you stated he had the ability to walk in and start teaching any college level course....

He knows enough about most subjects to read up on it and teach. I said most, and I did NOT say that he could teach without prep. Which is still way more than most of us. I know that most people I know would NOT be able to do that, even with weeks of prep. Even people with a college degree.

amother wrote:

That being said, I believe it is definitely possible for a small percentage of truly brilliant people to become self educated by reading, etc. But that's the minority, not the majority.

But this was exactly the point I was trying to make. Do you think that this small percentage of truly brilliant people are only born in the MO world? Do you not think that there are some truly brilliant people who are born in the Chassidish world as well? Yet I am willing to bet any money you want that you will NOT find anyone who was born to a family that does NOT have access to English literature, textbooks or whatnot who can do what my brother did. I am sure that there are PLENTY of VERY BRIGHT Chassidish men who can barely speak English and can barely spell simple second grade level words, despite the fact that they ARE going to the same yeshiva system that my brother went to. My point, again, is that it is NOT only the school system which causes this to happen - it's the home environment as well.

marina

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 1:59 pm

amother wrote:

KJ is only poor on the books. When very few business transactions are reported, this helps to keep statistic artificially low.

If you visually compare the inner city of Newburgh (also in Orange county ny) and KJ, you can see what system wide underreporting accomplishes.

Every house has a crystal chandelier.* Many have gorgeous furniture. The family is well dressed often in expensive matching outfits, and the mom has classy jewelry. They are able to raise $50,000 plus for each child they marry off.

In Newburgh, they also spend a disproportionate amount on jewelry and clothes, but there is real poverty there. No question about it. The residents are hurting with rat infested apartments and horrendous living conditions.**

My point is you can't rely on what is reported to the government.

The quip about the chandelier in every apartment was told to me by a county official who was complaining what Medicaid was doing to the budget. They know there is fruad but are powerless to stop it because of the voting block.

The living conditions in Newburgh were told to me by the housing inspector.

Wait, are you suggesting that the entire town of Kiryat Yoel is defrauding the government by lying about their wages to get benefits illegally? Shocked, I am so shocked.

amother

Navy

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 1:59 pm

Small minority does not equal "plenty" and the reality is that even very bright people need to be explicitly taught the building blocks of education. Just having math texts lying around does not guarantee that even a smart individual will pick it up/ be able to work through it completely independently and use that as a springboard to higher mathematics.

Mommyg8

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 2:03 pm

marina wrote:

Wait, are you suggesting that the entire town of Kiryat Yoel is defrauding the government by lying about their wages to get benefits illegally? Shocked, I am so shocked.

No, marina, you actually said that people who don't have a secular education are living in poverty. Which story is it?

Mommyg8

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 2:06 pm

amother wrote:

Nobody here on any of these threads was upset that the Chasidic boys were not learning higher mathematics. They were complaining that they can't read or write simple English sentences and can't do basic mathematics.

But yes, they DO get the building blocks. My brother learned A,B,C in school, my mother certainly didn't teach him.

marina

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 2:57 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

No, marina, you actually said that people who don't have a secular education are living in poverty. Which story is it?

is that what I said pumpkin? can you cite to my post, love? thanks!

Mommyg8

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 3:00 pm

marina wrote:

is that what I said pumpkin? can you cite to my post, love? thanks!

Sorry, must have mixed you up with someone else Smile

. You sure start sounding the same.

But wasn't it you who linked the high poverty rates in certain communities with a lack of secular education, specifically in the Lubavitch community?

naturalmom5

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 3:09 pm

marina wrote:

Wait, are you suggesting that the entire town of Kiryat Yoel is defrauding the government by lying about their wages to get benefits illegally? Shocked, I am so shocked.

Say it ain't so, Joe.... Surprised

amother

Orange

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 3:15 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Quote it.

You can't, because I never said it.

I will be glad to quote it. Will you apologize for wasting my time?

amother

Ruby

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 3:19 pm

amother wrote:

Every house has a crystal chandelier.* Many have gorgeous furniture. The family is well dressed often in expensive matching outfits, and the mom has classy jewelry. They are able to raise $50,000 plus for each child they marry off.

Every house has a chandelier. Except for my home and everyone else I know.

But if the subject is KJ why not spew some more lies? וכל המרבה הרי זה משובח
No?

Cheiny

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 5:00 pm

https://www.theyeshivaworld.co......html

marina

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 6:54 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Sorry, must have mixed you up with someone else Smile

. You sure start sounding the same.

But wasn't it you who linked the high poverty rates in certain communities with a lack of secular education, specifically in the Lubavitch community?

Yes prob on a different thread. But that’s still not the same as claiming that all pple without secular education live in poverty. Be careful in citing pple correctly.