Why do my kids need to help? why does e/o hav responsiblty?

amother

Mint

Fri, Jan 18 2019, 5:04 pm

I work in foster care. You can tell him that even the kids whose parents don't want them, do chores. "Our" kids do a lot more than most kids do at home.
Your son makes me really upset. If I was his mom, I wouldn't do his laundry, cook for him.. actually do anything for him. I can't stand entitled people. Does your husband treat you with respect? Where does he get those ideas from?
He says he's not your slave? You're not his slave!
We have kids who come from the worst of homes. Where you could really say: OMG I feel so bad, I'll just do it. Nope, they also do their stuff.

amother

Mint

Fri, Jan 18 2019, 5:07 pm

1untamedgirl wrote:

You can't legally withhold food and you can be charged with neglect for not providing clean clothing so that is not legit advice especially if this is a oivgekleter kid who will call authorities if abused/neglected. Maybe take away computer time but not essentials.
However, op mentioned that he already has chores and she is asking him to do extra chores which is what he is resenting and rebelling against. I believe that you can catch more bees with honey than with vinegar so op you can offer to pay him for any extra chores that you wants him to do around the house outside of his regular chores (which he already does without pay).

Noone said anything about withholding food. If he wants food, he can cook it himself. Noone will charge a mother with neglect if she doesn't cook for her 13 year old. If he was 5, it would be different.

amother

Floralwhite

Sat, Jan 19 2019, 11:45 am

amother wrote:

When I was in foster care, we all had chores to do. We were allowed to swap chores with other girls if we had certain likes or dislikes, but at the end of the day everything had to be done. Some of the girls whined and complained, but my foster mom was firm. I have no idea how she managed us all. She was pretty cool though, fair, and really funny at times, so I guess we wanted her approval.

amother

Mint

Sat, Jan 19 2019, 2:17 pm

amother wrote:

It's a state run home, we work there in shifts. I don't think the kids do it for approval. They get pocket money and if they don't do their chores, they get their money a month later and they don't want that. But most of them do their jobs without complaining. They see that we work hard and they like to help.

pause

Sat, Jan 19 2019, 6:18 pm

Zehava wrote:

Honestly?
I’m following a parenting approach which uses this tool. Among many others. But maybe you’re right that if given to a random stranger it can be used the wrong way.
As far as intentions, this approach holds by, and I’ve proven it in my parenting, that a child absolutely feels your intentions. Children subconsciously pick up on your feelings. They know if they riled you up. They know if you’re angry. They know if you want to get back at them.
It also definitely comes across in your tone of voice and body language.
If your intentions aren’t to punish, then you will otherwise treat the child with love and respect, while stating the facts when they come up. You won’t subject the kid to cold silences or angry rants.

I'm glad it works for you with your children now. Get back to me when you have teens and this still works. Unfortunately I've seen the fallout of this approach.

I believe as a mother, I am the parent, and while the child may behave in ways that aren't appropriate, my job is to role model proper behavior. To be the bigger one in the relationship.

1untamedgirl

Sat, Jan 19 2019, 7:07 pm

amother wrote:

Her exact quote was --

Quote:

I don't choose to give him food or let him use the washing machine. Does he like to be hungry and smelly?

So yes, that is withholding food and clean clothing which is abuse.

For those advocating a "tough love" approach, know that it will kill your relationship with your child even though it will look like everything is ok as the child will just learn to hide his/her true feelings from you to avoid punishment while doing whatever s/he wants behind your back.

https://www.naturalchild.org/a......html

1untamedgirl

Sat, Jan 19 2019, 7:13 pm

amother wrote:

At least you admit that they get pocket money and aren't doing chores for free. But you are using their money as a way to motivate them to do chores even though you probably get paid to be their foster parents and will lose the money if you dont take care of them appropriately regardless of whether they do their chores or not. So they have leverage on you to not do chores and you can't withhold their money indefinitely so if they are smart then they wouldn't do their chores and complain if you withhold their money or do anything to hurt them. This should be no different for kids who are not in foster care.

Zehava

Sat, Jan 19 2019, 8:54 pm

pause wrote:

Actually I’m in a parenting group with 30 or so others with kids of all ages including many teens. This approach works every time. The premise here is exactly as you said, to be the bigger one in the relationship, and not to allow our kids to draw us into power struggles.

Another mom

Sat, Jan 19 2019, 8:58 pm

penguin wrote:

I would be more concerned about my relationship with my child than the chores getting done. If you have a good relationship he will want to help you.

Not everyone can do this, but I always took more cleaning help than I could afford in order not to have to ask my kids for help. They ended up helping very willingly because they weren't required to help.

But this can backfire and produce lazy kids...

Zehava

Sat, Jan 19 2019, 9:31 pm

To be clear I am not of the opinion that every parent must have her kid do chores or else they will grow up lazy. I think that each household is unique and each parent has to decide what’s important to her.
I do think that once you decide that in your household you want your teenage kids to pitch in, a perfectly reasonable request, then you shouldn’t allow yourself to be cowed or panipulated by backtalk. You have every right to establish logical consequences and follow through with them. If done correctly, from a place of power and calm, it shouldn’t affect your relationship with the teen.

pause

Sat, Jan 19 2019, 9:32 pm

Zehava wrote:

I guess I'm really not getting the gist of this approach then. To me it seems like the exact definition of a power struggle: You don't do chores; I don't send you to camp, do your laundry, make you supper, etc. When you do your chores, I will do stuff for you.

If there's more to it than I'm getting then you should be even more careful in dispensing this advice.

pause

Sat, Jan 19 2019, 9:35 pm

Zehava wrote:

Nowhere did I mention that. Of course a mother should retain her authority.

Logical consequences don't include withholding laundry, supper, or summer camp.

Zehava

Sat, Jan 19 2019, 9:39 pm

pause wrote:

Nowhere did I mention that. Of course a mother should retain her authority.

Logical consequences don't include withholding laundry, supper, or summer camp.

Firstly I didn’t mention withholding supper. I mentioned not cooking anything especially for the kid, like if he wakes up in the morning and is in the mood of an omelette.
I’m only recommending these as an example of a logical consequence because of the way this kid is talking to his mom. Not because he isn’t doing his chores. The consequence has to match the misbehavior, and in this case it’s the way he talks that concerns me more.

pause

Sat, Jan 19 2019, 9:43 pm

Zehava wrote:

What's the problem with how he talks?

If we don't listen to kids because we don't like the exact way they say things, we are shutting down conversation with them. Teens are notorious for pushing their parents' buttons with how they phrase things. Instead of showing how personally you take it ("Talk to me with respect or else..."), you can simply address the topic at hand.

Zehava

Sat, Jan 19 2019, 10:14 pm

pause wrote:

I completely agree!
And in this case the topic at hand is the logic he is throwing at her in order to justify his misbehavior.
He is saying that because she is “choosing” to give him food and shelter she therefor has to basically cater to him without expecting him to pitch in with age-appropriate chores.
So she can listen to his logic, and then follow the logic by saying that yes she is choosing to give him food and shelter but she is also choosing not to do his laundry. he’s welcome to use the washing machine when it’s free. She is choosing to not cook anything especially for him. He’s welcome to eat what the other kids are eating or cook for himself. She’s choosing not to spend money on summer camp. He can go to yeshivah in the city.

crust

Sat, Jan 19 2019, 11:46 pm

Zehava wrote:

The bolded is exactly what a power struggle is Zehava.

Tell that woman running the parenting class that she doesn't explain herself well enough והא ראי such a smart person like you isn't getting it.

Zehava

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 12:39 am

crust wrote:

Ugh it’s so hard to get things across online.
I do find your tone quite condescending.
A power struggle is a war. In a war we either fight or surrender. There are many emotions involved. Anger, guilt, shame, powerlessness, etc.
if a child makes you feel one of those things then he or she has engaged you in a power struggle. It is your job now to sort through your feelings, change them, and rise above.
Sometimes that alone will be enough, your child will sense that you are no longer in that mode and the misbehavior will stop. But sometimes you’ll need more than that. And that is when logical consequences may be employed, among other things.
She explains herself well enough thank you very much. The proof is in the pudding. My mistake was to start off explaining this strategy on one foot and having people misunderstand me.
I’m wasting my time. Have fun hashing it out.

crust

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 6:17 am

I'm sorry Zahava
Really didn't mean to come across condescending. I really meant the woman giving the course- NOT you.

I understand that its hard to express ideas online and I do admit that I am under the influence that this is a specific parenting group where this method is being taught- the method is great in theory but it has too many holes in practical life.
(Which might also be the reason why its hard to explain it in writing.)

To me, success is not what worked on a weekly basis. Real success is - how much love is there in the relationships between these parents and children one, five and ten year after doing this method?

amother

Peach

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 8:18 am

1untamedgirl wrote:

Thanks for responding but maybe I was unclear. However, I am not talking about more chores besides his regular chores. I am just talking about regular chores, not extra!!