S/o Another thought
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Post  Tue, Jan 22 2019, 4:03 pm
DrMom wrote:
Okay, so if I "feel" like a Native American disabled woman, even though I am, say, a white 100% able-bodied man, can I get preferential treatment in admissions?

If I "feel" like an 80-year-old, can I get a senior citizen discount when I ride the bus?

If I "feel" like I am 5 years old, can I get a half-price ticket to the movie theater?

If I am a 200-lb male weightlifter, can I "feel" like a woman and enter the woman's weightlifting tournament?

I'm using this quote as an example, but I feel like there is a basic ignorance of the history of transgender people and treatment of them. Transgender people didn't start with Caitlyn Jenner, even though it's only been on people's radars for the past 3 years. They're just being more vocal about their rights.

The diagnosis has been around for years. "gender dysphoria" is still a diagnosis listed in the DSM. Gender and biological zex are not always so clear-cut. Besides numerous examples of interzex babies being born, there have been documented cases of babies being born with XY chromosomes and NORMAL FEMALE GENITALIA. There are also kids born with p*nile deformities where doctors have done surgery and essentially turned them into girls.

When the people who "feel" like they're 80 and want a discount have a higher suicide rate than the rest of the population, have a documented prevalence of being attacked for their age identity, being zexually assaulted, and kicked out of the parents' homes for feeling 80, then we can talk.

Otherwise, everyone is being way too simplistic and glib here.
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Post  Tue, Jan 22 2019, 4:20 pm
Here's another "big picture" conundrum that comes out of Charles Murray's statistical analysis in Coming Apart, which I referenced on another thread:

Marina mentioned the role of legacy admissions and a number of posters have discussed various identity categories that are given preference in admissions.

But most of us would agree that in a perfect world, people should be admitted to college based purely on merit, right?

Not so fast. Here's what's happened since merit-based admissions have become the norm:

In 1920, the average IQ of a student at Harvard was 116.
In 2014, the average IQ of a student at Harvard was 146.

Why is that significant? Because the combination of social factors and meriti-based admissions are gradually turning our competitive universities into little eugenics factories.

In 1920, the majority of people attending Harvard were there because of who they were, not how academically gifted they were. Of course, Harvard only admitted men at that time, but those men graduated, married women from similar backgrounds whose IQs varied, and had children with similar variance in IQ.

Today, college and graduate school are where many people meet their spouses. So we are cloistering our extremely smart people with other extremely smart people. Those people tend to marry each other and have . . . extremely smart kids.

To put it in less theoretical terms and discounting the racial/ethnic/religious factor, had Mark Zuckerberg attended Harvard in 1920, he would have nevertheless been likely to marry a woman from his neighborhood or his family's social circle. She might have been smarter than average, but not necessarily in the top percentiles of IQ. However, Zuckerberg went to Harvard in 2002 and met Priscilla Chan there. And Dr. Chan, rather than marrying someone from her family's social circle, married Zuckerberg.

The long-term effect is to create separate classes in America -- people whose intelligence is the result of natural selection put in place as a result of merit-based admissions, and people whose intelligence is a function of lacking that merit to one degree or another.

So while we are working hard to make everyone color-blind, we are setting ourselves up for a new caste problem.

This is not to necessarily argue against merit-based admissions; it's just an example of how unintended consequences can confound our best intentions.
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Post  Tue, Jan 22 2019, 4:35 pm
princessleah wrote:
When the people who "feel" like they're 80 and want a discount have a higher suicide rate than the rest of the population, have a documented prevalence of being attacked for their age identity, being zexually assaulted, and kicked out of the parents' homes for feeling 80, then we can talk.

No, we need to talk about the difference between statistical evidence and activism.

You're leaving out a great many messy details:

* Higher suicide rates for transgender people persist after transition and do not necessarily correlate with the amount of support they receive.

* Physical assaults against transgender people are predominantly against s-x workers, a field where s-xual assault rates are far, far higher than average.

* "Being kicked out" is a popular trope, but it is less and less common today, thankfully. In fact, the most recent high-profile story (albeit about a gay rather than transgender teen) turned out to be highly misleading.

We need to find a cure for gender dysphoria, but trans activists are making that more and more remote a possibility by shutting down any research on the topic. Preventing researchers from investigating a disorder in order to give greater rights to those suffering from the disorder reflects a level of pure evil, IMHO.

Transgender Suicides: What to Do About Them?
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Post  Wed, Jan 23 2019, 1:29 am
marina wrote:
I know you’re trying to get some emotional response with these examples, but I still don’t see what all the drama is about. People can’t travel back in time so we can’t change our age. But we can change our religion and gender so that’s what people will do. People are going to change the things they can and try to push that line as soon as possible. Just the nature of us humans we are always changing.

If there’s a scholarship for Jews, is a ger ineligible just because she or he was born Christian? Or to use your lingo if the Christian just “feels” Jewish? Well sure, if you ask a Christian, they’ll probably tell you that this convert nebach is just confused and you can’t change what you “really” are... lol

I'm not trying to get an emotional response.
I'm trying to get a logical response.

And I never said anything about religion. Nobody is disputing that one can change one's religion (or political party, or nationality, or favorite baseball team).

Sx, like age, is a biological fact, not a man-made construction.

BTW, here is a 50+ year old Canadian man who decided that he identifies as a 6-year-old girl. He left his wife and 7 kids and was adopted by a family and now lives as a 6-year-old girl.

(He was going to be an 8-year-old, but the 7-year-old daughter of his adopetive parents wanted a little sister, not a big sister, so he became a 6-year-old instead.)


This is pure narcissism and mental illness.
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Post  Sun, Jan 27 2019, 8:54 am
ectomorph wrote:
"male and female he created them"

So is a different power responsible for androgynes? For humans whose genitalia don't match their chromosomes?
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