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“The Inmates Are Running The Asylum”
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chanie18




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 8:27 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
Partially culpable? In what way???


Oh dear...
Take a look at US policy in central america over the past decades, all in support of elite us business interests, contributing to the instability, empowering oligarchs & drug cartels (which creates a breeding ground for gangs)
When we're done with central america we can look at the us' awful actions in pakistan, afghanistan and iraq, all drivers in the syrian redugee crisis & the problems in europe.
Then dont turn around and act all surprised that ordinary folks are fleeing the violence
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 8:29 am
chanie18 wrote:
Oh dear...
Take a look at US policy in central america over the past decades, all in support of elite us business interests, contributing to the instability, empowering oligarchs & drug cartels (which creates a breeding ground for gangs)
When we're done with central america we can look at the us' awful actions in pakistan, afghanistan and iraq, all drivers in the syrian redugee crisis & the problems in europe.
Then dont turn around and act all surprised that ordinary folks are fleeing the violence

So none of this has anything to do with Trump and what he has been doing in the past couple of years...
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chanie18




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 8:30 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
No we don't. We have a moral obligation to help our own before we help others.


And 'helping our own' would sum up trump's domestic policy would it? Or, helping his rich buddies get richer?
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simcha2




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 8:30 am
amother wrote:
You make no sense. Are you saying that illegal aliens don't get a free education and other services I.e. tutoring, food, esl classes, therapy, etc that is paid for the American taxpayers? Are you saying that illegal aliens don't get free healthcare that is funded by American citizens? Are you saying that illegal aliens don't get included in affirmative action making it easier for them to get into colleges over American citizens who are not included in affirmative action? If these things were not available to them then would they still want to come to America?


I'm sorry, start again. What healthcare do illegal immigrants get? What healthcare do illegal immigrants get that isn't open to legal immigrants? Examples please.

Same for education. Therapy.

How do illegal immigrants benefit from affirmative action?

You are actually going to have to give som facts, not rhetoric.
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chanie18




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 8:34 am
amother wrote:
So none of this has anything to do with Trump and what he has been doing in the past couple of years...


Tony Blair apologized for slavery. A real leader is the figurehead of the country, and the country has history.

Anyway not the point, point is america helped make the mess, america should help fix it (about 50 per head was spent on afghan reconstruction compared to 250 per head in bosnia).
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amother




Violet


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 8:37 am
ironic
if us policies were so poor then why are people wanting into the US
defies common logic
the US sends tons of aid to other countries
the countries who chose to try socialist policies and the like are the worse off
some countries are rife with corruption and violence
those countries can best figure out IYH how to best work toward more functional countries safety and economically and healthy
look at Cuba and Iran and Venezuela
look at S Korea vs N Korea
look at W Germany and E Germany before the collapse of E Germany
they were doing MUCH better before communists and ayatollahs took over and after they got rid of them in the cases they did
I feel terribly sorry for those poor people and so grateful I was not born there
no hubris here -- I realize mainly they will have to solve their own problems and hope they do
its not all or nothing
Yes the US does have its flaws as does any country
its relative
no one and no country is perfect
We need moshiach for that
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 8:39 am
simcha2 wrote:
I'm sorry, start again. What healthcare do illegal immigrants get? What healthcare do illegal immigrants get that isn't open to legal immigrants? Examples please.

Same for education. Therapy.

How do illegal immigrants benefit from affirmative action?

You are actually going to have to give som facts, not rhetoric.

You can start by reading this thread which has some links attached-- https://www.imamother.com/foru.....p?t=354728
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simcha2




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 8:51 am
amother wrote:
You can start by reading this thread which has some links attached-- https://www.imamother.com/foru.....p?t=354728


Read the thread. Not a single thing about benefits available to illegal immigrants that are not opento legal immigrants.

Facts please.

(And stop hiding behind amother)
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amother




Ivory


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 8:52 am
amother wrote:
ironic
if us policies were so poor then why are people wanting into the US
defies common logic
the US sends tons of aid to other countries
the countries who chose to try socialist policies and the like are the worse off
some countries are rife with corruption and violence
those countries can best figure out IYH how to best work toward more functional countries safety and economically and healthy
look at Cuba and Iran and Venezuela
look at S Korea vs N Korea
look at W Germany and E Germany before the collapse of E Germany
they were doing MUCH better before communists and ayatollahs took over and after they got rid of them in the cases they did
I feel terribly sorry for those poor people and so grateful I was not born there
no hubris here -- I realize mainly they will have to solve their own problems and hope they do
its not all or nothing
Yes the US does have its flaws as does any country
its relative
no one and no country is perfect
We need moshiach for that


https://www.usnews.com/news/be.....e-rankings

To be honest, the only people "wanting in to the US" are people from third world countries or people seeking jobs in entertainment and hi-tech.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/2.....e%2520U.S.
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 8:57 am
simcha2 wrote:
Read the thread. Not a single thing about benefits available to illegal immigrants that are not opento legal immigrants.

Facts please.

(And stop hiding behind amother)

Seriously? You are being disingenuous. NY just approved a bill specifically for illegal aliens and to help them with things that many American citizens don't even get I.e. scholarships.
Legal immigrants have earned the right to get every single benefit that American born citizens can get but why are illegal aliens entitled to anything at all, let alone a bill that is specifically for their benefit. why are they entitled to such treatment when many citizens are struggling with paying for college?
Why bother being a legal immigrant or an American citizen when you can get preferential treatment as an illegal alien?
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Mommyg8




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 8:59 am
chanie18 wrote:
Oh dear...
Take a look at US policy in central america over the past decades, all in support of elite us business interests, contributing to the instability, empowering oligarchs & drug cartels (which creates a breeding ground for gangs)
When we're done with central america we can look at the us' awful actions in pakistan, afghanistan and iraq, all drivers in the syrian redugee crisis & the problems in europe.
Then dont turn around and act all surprised that ordinary folks are fleeing the violence


You're making an awful lot of accusations. Why don't you post links to studies backing up these assertions?
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simcha2




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 9:01 am
amother wrote:
Seriously? You are being disingenuous. NY just approved a bill specifically for illegal aliens and to help them with things that many American citizens don't even get I.e. scholarships.
Legal immigrants have earned the right to get every single benefit that American born citizens can get but why are illegal aliens entitled to anything at all, let alone a bill that is specifically for their benefit. why are they entitled to such treatment when many citizens are struggling with paying for college?
Why bother being a legal immigrant or an American citizen when you can get preferential treatment as an illegal alien?


No, the bill was too give illegal immigrants the same access.

You can always give up your legal status if you truly believe what you write .
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 9:06 am
simcha2 wrote:
No, the bill was too give illegal immigrants the same access.

You can always give up your legal status if you truly believe what you write .

Same access? Many American citizens don't get scholarships or financial aid, why are illegal aliens entitled to these services when they shouldn't be in the country in the first place? What are the benefits of being a citizen if you can get more benefits and services as an illegal alien?
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amother




Orange


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 9:08 am
amother wrote:
Seriously? You are being disingenuous. NY just approved a bill specifically for illegal aliens and to help them with things that many American citizens don't even get I.e. scholarships.
Legal immigrants have earned the right to get every single benefit that American born citizens can get but why are illegal aliens entitled to anything at all, let alone a bill that is specifically for their benefit. why are they entitled to such treatment when many citizens are struggling with paying for college?
Why bother being a legal immigrant or an American citizen when you can get preferential treatment as an illegal alien?


Fairly certain there are citizen Americans on this very board who have used FAFSA to pay for a good deal of their higher education.

The job pool available to illegal immigrants is incomparable to citizens and visa holders.
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 9:23 am
amother wrote:
Fairly certain there are citizen Americans on this very board who have used FAFSA to pay for a good deal of their higher education.

The job pool available to illegal immigrants is incomparable to citizens and visa holders.

Many American citizens don't get financial aid or scholarships but the left thinks that its ok to give these things to illegal aliens. If there is all this money available then why not make sure that every American citizen gets a free college/graduate school education?

Illegal aliens are going to college and graduate schools, becoming lawyers, doctors, psychologists, etc. Many American citizens can't get into these schools (and there is currently an ongoing lawsuit about it but can't say more than that). If we have so much place in our colleges/grad schools then why not ensure that every American citizen gets an education before we think about illegal aliens?
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simcha2




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 9:26 am
amother wrote:
Same access? Many American citizens don't get scholarships or financial aid, why are illegal aliens entitled to these services when they shouldn't be in the country in the first place? What are the benefits of being a citizen if you can get more benefits and services as an illegal alien?


Seriously, if you feel that disenfranchised give up your status.

You have not named a single benefit open to illegal immigrants that is not open to legal immigrants. You wrote in a post that America is a country where anyone can succeed on merit.

If you are not succeeding then maybe look at yourself.

But honestly, right now you are coming across as someone who is full of rhetoric with no actual basis for your beliefs other than being someone else to blame.

You have refused to answer any questions I have put to you and refused to come out from amother.

Until you do either one I'm not engaging further. It's pointless.

You are just repeating cliches with no evidence or basis in fact.

I'm sorry you are struggling, but it is not because an illegal immigrant is cleaning toilets or picking crops.

Every job I've had in the US has required proof of legal status to work. This is trueof every decent job in America. No one is taking your hard work or job away from you.

I don't support illegal immigration but saying that somehow illegal immigrants are to blame because you'renot making itis ridiculous. A hospital being legally obligated to stabilize a patient regardless of status or ability to pay is not making harder for you to afford healthcare.

Bring facts.

But your rhetoric is ridiculous.
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simcha2




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 9:27 am
Double post
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amother




Orange


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 9:30 am
amother wrote:
Many American citizens don't get financial aid or scholarships but the left thinks that its ok to give these things to illegal aliens. If there is all this money available then why not make sure that every American citizen gets a free college/graduate school education?

Illegal aliens are going to college and graduate schools, becoming lawyers, doctors, psychologists, etc. Many American citizens can't get into these schools (and there is currently an ongoing lawsuit about it but can't say more than that). If we have so much place in our colleges/grad schools then why not ensure that every American citizen gets an education before we think about illegal aliens?


"the left" isn't a person.

and actually - leftist ideology does advocate for free school for everybody.

There is no epidemic of qualified American citizens not being able to get into US grad and professional schools.
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chanie18




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 9:33 am
amother wrote:
why not make sure that every American citizen gets a free college/graduate school education? -

Good idea except youre not willing to vote for anyone actually willing to make that happen

amother wrote:
illegal aliens are going to college and graduate schools, becoming lawyers, doctors, psychologists, etc.

And then paying lots of tax...net gain to the economy I'd say
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 9:42 am
chanie18 wrote:
amother wrote:
why not make sure that every American citizen gets a free college/graduate school education? -

Good idea except youre not willing to vote for anyone actually willing to make that happen

amother wrote:
illegal aliens are going to college and graduate schools, becoming lawyers, doctors, psychologists, etc.

And then paying lots of tax...net gain to the economy I'd say

LOL. NY could have just passed a bill giving all American citizens (in NY) a free college education but instead they passed a bill giving illegal aliens access to scholarship and grants that many citizens don''t get. Cant trust these liberals to do the right thing so why vote for them?

So you admit that illegal aliens are not just cleaning bathrooms or picking cotton in the field.. how exactly do they get these jobs if they need proof that they can work in America? How are they paying taxes (and the ITIN was already discussed in the other thread posted above so don't bother using that excuse again).
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