Home

Virgina governor says babies can be killed after delivery
  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> In the News -> Politics

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 3:19 pm
https://www.dailywire.com/news.....apiro

Reasons that he considers are deformities in the baby or the mother not wanting the baby.

Abortion has always been about murder but now it's obvious.
Back to top

FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 3:21 pm
I'm surprised to see this in Virginia. I was sure it would start with the northern states first.

This is the tip of the iceberg.
Back to top

pesek zman




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 3:22 pm
Abortion has never been about murder but you and I will never agree on that
Back to top

causemommysaid




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 3:23 pm
Seems to be more of a DNR than actual murder. Next of kin are allowed to sign such things. I don't think he said actively kill the baby.
Back to top

amother




Oak


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 3:27 pm
Did you listen to what he said, or did you read the article which makes up something completely different? Because what he said is often in line with what would be given as a halachic psak.
Back to top

ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 4:07 pm
He stated:

This is why decisions such as this should be made by providers, physicians, and the mothers and fathers that are involved. When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of the mother, with the consent of physicians, more than one physician by the way, and it’s done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus which is non-viable. So in this particular example, if the mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen, the infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if this is what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physician and the mother.


These are the exact words. You can resuscitate the baby then decide to kill it after resuscitation.


And we all know that only 3% of late abortions are actually due to deformities.

The laws are written with vague definition of health to include mental health, fiscal health.
Back to top

causemommysaid




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 4:12 pm
I'm not sure where it says that. I think the conversation is more about whether the child should be revived or not. Maybe your right, I'm just not seeing that from this statement.
Back to top

amother




Oak


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 4:24 pm
ectomorph wrote:
He stated:

This is why decisions such as this should be made by providers, physicians, and the mothers and fathers that are involved. When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of the mother, with the consent of physicians, more than one physician by the way, and it’s done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus which is non-viable. So in this particular example, if the mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen, the infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if this is what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physician and the mother.


These are the exact words. You can resuscitate the baby then decide to kill it after resuscitation.


And we all know that only 3% of late abortions are actually due to deformities.

The laws are written with vague definition of health to include mental health, fiscal health.


That's your own addendum. My understanding is that he's referring to the decision to provide or withhold further life saving measures. He specifically mentions severe deformities and a non viable fetus with absolutely no mention of vague "health."
Back to top

Ema of 4




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 4:36 pm
ectomorph wrote:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/42839/watch-democratic-va-governor-endorses-murder-born-ben-shapiro

Reasons that he considers are deformities in the baby or the mother not wanting the baby.

Abortion has always been about murder but now it's obvious.

Without stating my opinion, that article is totally skewed....
Back to top

SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 4:37 pm
ectomorph wrote:
He stated:

These are the exact words. You can resuscitate the baby then decide to kill it after resuscitation.



I've listened to the tape, and read transcripts. That's not only not the "exact words," it bears almost no resemblance to what was actually said.

Please post a video, including a reference to where in the video it is said, of Gov. Northam saying, "you can resuscitate the baby then decide to kill it after resuscitation."
Back to top

octopus




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 4:53 pm
This is a slippery slope.
Back to top

amother




Lemon


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 5:30 pm
Again, this might be a Christian problem but it is not a Jewish one. We don't believe that you have to take extra ordinary measures and put a baby on life support. Prick him with needles, operate on him and torture him with medical procedures when we already know that he has no chance at a life out of the hospital with out being attached to machines that keep him alive.

In another thread there was a woman that was all excited that she knows a child with Trisomy 18 that is 3 years old. Why is that something to applaud??

This sometimes happens with the elderly also, where the person is 89 and they are more dead than alive but the family would rather see their loved one keep getting resuscitated because it makes them feel good that this person isn't dead. Except this person is dead and is getting pricked and operated on and is just laying half dead because their family can't let go.

The halacha is that you don't have to put a person on to a respirator but once they're hooked up, you can't pull the plug.
Back to top

Sebastian




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 5:37 pm
He said the mother can choose to resuscitate a very sick baby or to just let it go. Unless my comprehension is off. That makes sense to me
Back to top

Mommyg8




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 6:00 pm
Sebastian wrote:
He said the mother can choose to resuscitate a very sick baby or to just let it go. Unless my comprehension is off. That makes sense to me


No, it specifically states that the doctor and the mother will have a conversation AFTER the resuscitation.

The reason why I am concerned, is because like others have mentioned, it's a slippery slope. You may be picturing a very sick baby who is inherently incompatible with life, but the actual facts may be very different.

A mother can decide to do a late term abortion in the beginning of the seventh month, for example, not because of actual health reasons but because of any number of other reasons. The baby may not have any deformities at all, but will be left to die. And this is what is bothering me.

They are already killing the old people, now it's the newborn babies - where will it stop?
Back to top

amother




Tangerine


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 6:08 pm
Sebastian wrote:
He said the mother can choose to resuscitate a very sick baby or to just let it go. Unless my comprehension is off. That makes sense to me


That's always been the law. Parents can make that choice. (I've had a sibling in this situation, who was told not to abort, but not to resuscitate an infant who had no chance of living). The chiddush here is that babies that are born alive when the mother decides last minute that she wants an abortion wont get the medical help they need.

There have been laws passed and laws proposed about babies that survive abortion by accident--do they have a right to medical help or can they be killed/left to die. It's a stunning lack of morality.

And I dont buy the arguement that this only for cases of severe deformity and illness. That's like bill Clinton's famous quote that abortions should be "safe, legal, and rare". It's a slippery slope meant to make abortions acceptable, and then they start silently moving the line. By 2016, Hillarys position had gone from "safe, legal, and rare" to approving of 3rd trimester abortions and saying that the unborn (even at full term) have no rights.
Back to top

amother




Linen


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 6:14 pm
amother wrote:
That's always been the law. Parents can make that choice. (I've had a sibling in this situation, who was told not to abort, but not to resuscitate an infant who had no chance of living). The chiddush here is that babies that are born alive when the mother decides last minute that she wants an abortion wont get the medical help they need.

There have been laws passed and laws proposed about babies that survive abortion by accident--do they have a right to medical help or can they be killed/left to die. It's a stunning lack of morality.

And I dont buy the arguement that this only for cases of severe deformity and illness. That's like bill Clinton's famous quote that abortions should be "safe, legal, and rare". It's a slippery slope meant to make abortions acceptable, and then they start silently moving the line. By 2016, Hillarys position had gone from "safe, legal, and rare" to approving of 3rd trimester abortions and saying that the unborn (even at full term) have no rights.


So, if you view this as a slippery slope, I suppose you believe that your sibling should have been legally obligated to ignore the advice of her rabbi, and to subject the baby to all possible medical interventions that would potentially prolong life, even if only for days, and even if that life would have no quality.

BTW, Bill and Hilary are 2 different people, but I believe that the quote is actually Hilary in any case. But her position isn't contradictory. Abortions should be rare, but one of the reasons for them should include fetal and maternal health, including late term abortions.

I still miss my colleague who had to decide between a late term abortion and medical treatment; she died just weeks after the baby was born. But at least it was her decision.
Back to top

amother




Tangerine


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 6:24 pm
amother wrote:
So, if you view this as a slippery slope, I suppose you believe that your sibling should have been legally obligated to ignore the advice of her rabbi, and to subject the baby to all possible medical interventions that would potentially prolong life, even if only for days, and even if that life would have no quality.

BTW, Bill and Hilary are 2 different people, but I believe that the quote is actually Hilary in any case. But her position isn't contradictory. Abortions should be rare, but one of the reasons for them should include fetal and maternal health, including late term abortions.

I still miss my colleague who had to decide between a late term abortion and medical treatment; she died just weeks after the baby was born. But at least it was her decision.


No, I just don't think that she had a right, after carrying the baby for 40 weeks, to say "screw this, kill it instead" and have an abortion at 40 weeks, or to kill the baby after it was born (if that's what the VA governor is indeed saying and it's not a misspeak when he says that they will make the baby comfortable while the mother considers her options with the obgyn doctors).


Again, the law has always been that parents choose when to discontinue medical treatment on behalf of infants and children. Accepting that a baby who's born without several major organs can't live is not the same as advocating abortion until the moment of birth. This is more along the lines of withholding medical help from a normal baby who happens to survive a 2nd or 3rd trimester abortion.


There's nothing magical about passage through the birth canal that makes it not murder. At 40 weeks (much earlier!) That baby is an independent human being who feels pain. Why should anyone be allowed to murder it?
Back to top

amother




Cerulean


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 6:34 pm
I admit that this article scares me, yet we as Jews are so privileged to always be able to ask daas Torah. This saves us much heartache and guilt.
Back to top

amother




Green


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 6:39 pm
Delete

Last edited by amother on Mon, Feb 11 2019, 1:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 30 2019, 6:47 pm
amother wrote:
No, I just don't think that she had a right, after carrying the baby for 40 weeks, to say "screw this, kill it instead" and have an abortion at 40 weeks, or to kill the baby after it was born (if that's what the VA governor is indeed saying and it's not a misspeak when he says that they will make the baby comfortable while the mother considers her options with the obgyn doctors).


Again, the law has always been that parents choose when to discontinue medical treatment on behalf of infants and children. Accepting that a baby who's born without several major organs can't live is not the same as advocating abortion until the moment of birth. This is more along the lines of withholding medical help from a normal baby who happens to survive a 2nd or 3rd trimester abortion.


There's nothing magical about passage through the birth canal that makes it not murder. At 40 weeks (much earlier!) That baby is an independent human being who feels pain. Why should anyone be allowed to murder it?


That's clearly not what he said.

What he said was that people should be allowed to make the decision that your sibling did.

The only people who have ever referred to abortion "up to the moment of birth" are right-wingers who oppose abortion.
Back to top
  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 1 of 6 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> In the News -> Politics

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Iron Drops for babies
by amother
1 Mon, Nov 25 2019, 11:39 pm View last post
Chosson kallah breakfast delivery boro park
by amother
14 Sun, Nov 17 2019, 2:36 pm View last post
Best online grocery delivery service? 13 Sun, Nov 17 2019, 9:34 am View last post
Babies named after Holtzbergs HYD from Mumbai 4 Wed, Nov 06 2019, 11:24 am View last post
Crown Heights Breakfast Basket Delivery
by amother
6 Fri, Oct 25 2019, 12:03 pm View last post

Jump to: