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For what is one "allowed" to daven ?
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dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Feb 03 2019, 1:02 pm
You are allowed to ask for anything but there is a difference if einreisen meaning this shidduch must happen instead of finding the right zivug. I am not leaving this room till rebbe promises me a child, etc......
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Ema of 4




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Feb 03 2019, 1:27 pm
amother wrote:
I want to daven to Hashem that my kids will make good choices always, but will not lose any schar for their free will being removed in this area.

Is this permissible?

It seems very controlling.

Perhaps I should be davening to cope with whatever happens. I'm doing that as well.

But it's not enough. I want the first thing I mentioned.

Thoughts? Comments? Chizzuk?

Thanks!

Making good choices means they are making choices, so they will still have free will.

I grew up with the idea that we can always daven for anything, be it a refua shlaima for someone, or to do well on a test. Meaning that no matter how (seemingly) significant or insignificant, we can always daven.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Feb 03 2019, 4:46 pm
dankbar wrote:
There is such a thing as not "einreisen" for a specific thing. .


I've heard this concept, particularly re shidduchim. Daven that if it's the right one it go smoothly but not for the specific shidduch. My father used to say this. And now I wish I'd asked him, why do we not extrapolate this for all sorts of things (like, I hope all the paperwork that we've set into motion on this house go through).

I think of DovDov and the Great Bicycle Race and the song, "It means so much/to me you see/Hashem please help me win/if it's good for me."

As I heard in shiur on Ashrei re Poseiach es yadecha, our kavana can be, "Hashem, I should want what's good for me, and I should be worthy of receiving it."
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amother




Lemon


Post  Sun, Feb 03 2019, 4:51 pm
It's always been confusing to me. I've learnt that those who suffer will benefit from that in the next world. Since they didn't use up any of their reward in this world. With that in mind, bad is really good and good is really bad Since the next world is infinitely more important.
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imasoftov




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Feb 04 2019, 5:53 am
amother wrote:
It's always been confusing to me. I've learnt that those who suffer will benefit from that in the next world. Since they didn't use up any of their reward in this world. With that in mind, bad is really good and good is really bad Since the next world is infinitely more important.

Nevertheless the siddur is filled with prayers for good things in this world, not more suffering.

Also there is a series of aggadot on Berakhot 5b that follow the same pattern with different rabbis asking to have the suffering end, I'll just bring the first because they're all similar

רבי חייא בר אבא חלש על לגביה רבי יוחנן אמר ליה חביבין עליך יסורין אמר ליה לא הן ולא שכרן אמר ליה הב לי ידך יהב ליה ידיה ואוקמיה

Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba, fell ill. Rabbi Yoḥanan entered to visit him, and said to him: Is your suffering dear to you? (e.g. Do you desire to be ill and afflicted?) Rabbi Ḥiyya said to him: neither this suffering nor its reward. Rabbi Yoḥanan said to him: Give me your hand. Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba gave him his hand, and Rabbi Yoḥanan stood him up and restored him to health.
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malki2




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 12:10 pm
amother wrote:
I want to daven to Hashem that my kids will make good choices always, but will not lose any schar for their free will being removed in this area.

Is this permissible?

It seems very controlling.

Perhaps I should be davening to cope with whatever happens. I'm doing that as well.

But it's not enough. I want the first thing I mentioned.

Thoughts? Comments? Chizzuk?

Thanks!


The Steipler ZTL once told someone asking if he should daven for his kids,

I daven for my Chaim’l every day.

Rav Chaim Kanievsky by this time already had a white beard.

I don’t think that the Steipler was just davening to cope with whatever happens.

And I doubt that Rav Chaim Shlita will lose a bit of Schar because his father daven Ed for him. Otherwise why get a beracha from anyone either?
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PurpleandGold




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 1:28 pm
Rav Chatzkel Levenstein said that if you receive abundance that you haven't dawned for, you can be afraid it is taking schar from the next world, but if you daven and receive, it will not remove schar.

One should daven for something like children to make good choices and not worry about their bechira being taken away! There are many spiritual forces that influence a person in a good or bad direction, daven that your children are pushed in the right direction. Bechira being taken away is not in the realm of tevah, that would be an exceptional circumstance, like Paroh.
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