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Are you a high school public school teacher?
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amother




Ivory


Post  Mon, Feb 04 2019, 8:29 pm
yes it's definitely not easy to get tenure. I work in NJ and until I was tenured there were all of these things that were "optional" volunteer things like extra meetings and committees, running clubs for no pay, chaperoning school events, etc. that we did to get on the principal's good side--they didn't really feel optional at the time. I will point out that I (and many other tenured teachers) still do these things often because we care about our students and it makes our school better, but there was definitely a power imbalance where we felt that if we didn't do everything, it would hurt us in our evaluations. Nothing that could be proven-- maybe you'd lose points for something in your next observation or be graded more harshly on something he would let slide for someone else.
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amother




Gold


Post  Mon, Feb 04 2019, 8:35 pm
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Last edited by amother on Mon, Feb 11 2019, 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Pumpkin


Post  Mon, Feb 04 2019, 8:54 pm
smileforamile wrote:
Well, if I can't do it myself, at least I can help other people Wink


You've given me lots to think about!
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amother




Gold


Post  Mon, Feb 04 2019, 9:01 pm
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amother




Floralwhite


Post  Mon, Feb 04 2019, 9:08 pm
First of all, you are NOT too old! There are many midcareer professionals who switch to teaching as a second career.

That being said, when I was getting my Master's degree, I knew I wanted to teach. I was debating between getting the MEd and NY certification or a Masters in a subject area that I could teach at the college level. I had subbed in a public school system and was hired a lot because I was willing to sub middle school classes. Smile However, my experience cemented the fact that I prefer teaching adults so I opted for the second choice.

My DD and her DH are both teachers in the public schools. They originally taught in religious schools but the benefits/salary are much better in public school systems. DD teaches 8th grade and her hubby teaches high school (different subjects). There are some problems that have arisen which they did not encounter at religious schools but there were issues in the religious schools that are irrelevant in public schools.
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amother




Blonde


Post  Mon, Feb 04 2019, 9:52 pm
I am a school counselor in a public high school not in NY/NJ. Everything you’re hearing about people’s experiences will be different depending on their state, county, and specific school and admin which can change from year to year. (My county specifically moves assistant principals to other schools every few years.)

Regarding placements, the way my county works is after you apply if you’re lucky you get a screening interview with someone in central office. If you do well enough they pass along your name to any principals who have an opening in their school and the principals will call you if they are interested in interviewing you and you can decide if you’d like to interview with them. You might end up with multiple interviews at different schools and if you’re really lucky multiple job opportunities/placements within the same school system which means you would get to decide (if more than 1 school wants you) where you want to work.

Regarding tenure-in my county you get it very easily as long as your decent at your job after 3 years. Bh I did get it after 3 years (just like the teachers who started at the same time as me) and we didn’t have to do anything above or beyond our job with after school activities and community things that other people are talking about. I’m surprised to hear that that should have anything to do with tenure!

No matter what population you work with you will definitely be teaching students who have serious trauma and crazy things happening in their lives. I work at middle to upper class school where many of my students have fancier cars than me yet their lives are crazy. Suicide attempts and ideation are commonplace and unfortunately we had a student who successfully took his own life. I’ve come to learn that even the kids who look like they have it all-looks, brains, money, great family-really don’t have great lives at all and if anyone really knew what they experienced they would not want to trade places with them. I could write novels upon novels of what these kids go through. Very often this negatively effects their concentration and performance in school. However there are many students who despite what they go through love learning and excel in school. Pretty much no matter where you teach you’ll have students of all types but some may have one of more type. (For example I would not feel comfortable working in an inner city school even though some of my students have moved from the inner city to my school and I’m happy to work with them.)

All in all I love my job for the most part. I have a great relationship with administration and never feel like they are out to get me. We work together as a team. I love what I do as I really feel like I’m making a difference in kids’ lives. Obviously things can get stressful at times but that’s the case at any job. And the salary and benefits just don’t compare to frum schools.

I don’t know if that was helpful but I wanted to point out that things don’t work the same way in every school and public school system/county.
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amother




Pumpkin


Post  Mon, Feb 04 2019, 10:20 pm
Blonde and Floralwhite, I really appreciate all the different views.

I'm also wondering, about how many hours per night do you spend on class preparation and marking papers? I'm thinking you probably get home in the evening around the same time as your kids, and I have bh a whole slew of my own elementary aged kids.
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amother




Gold


Post  Mon, Feb 04 2019, 11:12 pm
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Last edited by amother on Mon, Feb 11 2019, 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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turca




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Feb 04 2019, 11:16 pm
I’m a high school teacher in NYC. It’s been 15 years. All my work problems stay at work, otherwise I wouldn’t be teaching. Burocracy, loads of paper work, crazy superintendent...I work in a hard neighborhood (think entitled low income minorities and unhappy foreigners). The pay is excellent, so are the benefits and I teach my native language:)
If you teach math, they are always looking for math teachers.
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groisamomma




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Feb 04 2019, 11:55 pm
smileforamile wrote:
TONS. I know some teachers say that they don't take work home, but that probably means they're in school until 7pm every night- or they've been teaching the same subject for 15 years and haven't bothered to update.


Okay, I'm totally taking offense at that last line Very Happy. I'm one of the most innovative teachers in my school and rarely, if ever, bring home work! Yes, math for 15 years means I know the content well enough that all I have to do is change my plans to align with whatever modality is considered best practice for that year. OP, normal public schools (and by that I don't mean NYC!) give their teachers plenty of prep time. It's built into the schedule of every teacher. For the first 2 years you scramble to make it, so yes you may have to use your lunchtime to prepare as well. With 1 lunch period and 2 prep periods per day, a math teacher does NOT need to be bringing home hours of work!! Except for the few times I had parent meetings that ate up my prep times, in which case I did lesson plans at home. They take 1/2 hr to an hour at most. I suspect NYC either doesn't give their teachers enough prep time, or doesn't have PLC time built into their schedules (all math teachers meet several times a week to do lesson plans and share resources, assessments, etc.) because it really sounds from imamother that every teacher in NYC is operating like a one-man band! Of course people there are burned out and disgusted with the system!

Smileforamile, again you're scaring OP with stories that can only happen in NYC! I can't see any administrator in any school except inner-city ones get away with perpetuating the horrors you speak of. You teach in an off-the-wall population, with seriously deranged supervisors, and you're writing things about tenure I've NEVER heard of in my life. Seriously, it doesn't even sound legal. I'm incredulous! Yes, often the "blah" teachers get riffed when they're cutting down, but any teacher that's with the program and meeting expectations has a legal RIGHT to tenure at 4 years. I'vs never heard it work the way you're describing.

Just throwing this out there, OP: If you're teaching high school in such a district, you might as well teach middle. Smileforamile said (I think it was you) that they're just middle schoolers in disguise. Just saying that classroom management will be a much smaller issue if you start out with middle school at least until you have the system down pat. You can always move up to high school later...and maybe even teach your own grown-up middle school kids Very Happy.

Another thing: The amother guidance counselor above raised many good points about the home lives of even the middle and upper class kids. I can probably add several chapters to her novel about the stories these kids have. However, and this is a big one, she writes that she has full admin support and they work with her. Please realize that she is in a totally different position than a teacher with regards to administration. They need her. To the extent where it can come back to bite an admin if they drop the ball with any student. So while my principals and admins have always had o it r backs, and support the teachers, it's not like that all over. She's coming from a totally different angle as a counselor and not as a teacher.

Hope any of this made sense. 'Tis the hour for me (where's the yawn emoji?!)...
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amother




Pumpkin


Post  Tue, Feb 05 2019, 7:53 am
groisamomma wrote:
Okay, I'm totally taking offense at that last line Very Happy. I'm one of the most innovative teachers in my school and rarely, if ever, bring home work! Yes, math for 15 years means I know the content well enough that all I have to do is change my plans to align with whatever modality is considered best practice for that year. OP, normal public schools (and by that I don't mean NYC!) give their teachers plenty of prep time. It's built into the schedule of every teacher. For the first 2 years you scramble to make it, so yes you may have to use your lunchtime to prepare as well. With 1 lunch period and 2 prep periods per day, a math teacher does NOT need to be bringing home hours of work!! Except for the few times I had parent meetings that ate up my prep times, in which case I did lesson plans at home. They take 1/2 hr to an hour at most. I suspect NYC either doesn't give their teachers enough prep time, or doesn't have PLC time built into their schedules (all math teachers meet several times a week to do lesson plans and share resources, assessments, etc.) because it really sounds from imamother that every teacher in NYC is operating like a one-man band! Of course people there are burned out and disgusted with the system!

Smileforamile, again you're scaring OP with stories that can only happen in NYC! I can't see any administrator in any school except inner-city ones get away with perpetuating the horrors you speak of. You teach in an off-the-wall population, with seriously deranged supervisors, and you're writing things about tenure I've NEVER heard of in my life. Seriously, it doesn't even sound legal. I'm incredulous! Yes, often the "blah" teachers get riffed when they're cutting down, but any teacher that's with the program and meeting expectations has a legal RIGHT to tenure at 4 years. I'vs never heard it work the way you're describing.

Just throwing this out there, OP: If you're teaching high school in such a district, you might as well teach middle. Smileforamile said (I think it was you) that they're just middle schoolers in disguise. Just saying that classroom management will be a much smaller issue if you start out with middle school at least until you have the system down pat. You can always move up to high school later...and maybe even teach your own grown-up middle school kids Very Happy.

Another thing: The amother guidance counselor above raised many good points about the home lives of even the middle and upper class kids. I can probably add several chapters to her novel about the stories these kids have. However, and this is a big one, she writes that she has full admin support and they work with her. Please realize that she is in a totally different position than a teacher with regards to administration. They need her. To the extent where it can come back to bite an admin if they drop the ball with any student. So while my principals and admins have always had o it r backs, and support the teachers, it's not like that all over. She's coming from a totally different angle as a counselor and not as a teacher.

Hope any of this made sense. 'Tis the hour for me (where's the yawn emoji?!)...


I really appreciate getting all these different perspectives! (And now you're really making me wish I lived out of town!) I had no idea that prep time is built into the school day.

The thing is, I would be in NY, but I was wondering if it would be possible to go out to Long Island, where maybe the schools are better. But now, thanks to you ladies, at least I'll know what to look for.

One more question. Is the school day from 8-4? How does it work with early Fridays in the winter?
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groisamomma




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Feb 05 2019, 8:35 am
I'm not sure how the hours work in NYC but in our district every school has different hours because they stagger the bussing. So while at one point my hours were 7:10-2:30, these days it's a few minutes later.

On winter Fridays you join the Mad Rush Club. Some Fridays I leave after my last class, around 1:15, but I guess that would depend on whether your admin is okay with it.

I'm not OOT (live in Lakewood but teach in a different district) and it's not that hard to get dual state certification. I think some states still honor certification requirements in other states so if you already have NY certification then you just have to take a Praxis test and pay 190 for the piece of paper. Best if you look into that rather than relying on me though.
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amother




Blonde


Post  Tue, Feb 05 2019, 9:12 am
groisamomma wrote:
Okay, I'm totally taking offense at that last line Very Happy. I'm one of the most innovative teachers in my school and rarely, if ever, bring home work! Yes, math for 15 years means I know the content well enough that all I have to do is change my plans to align with whatever modality is considered best practice for that year. OP, normal public schools (and by that I don't mean NYC!) give their teachers plenty of prep time. It's built into the schedule of every teacher. For the first 2 years you scramble to make it, so yes you may have to use your lunchtime to prepare as well. With 1 lunch period and 2 prep periods per day, a math teacher does NOT need to be bringing home hours of work!! Except for the few times I had parent meetings that ate up my prep times, in which case I did lesson plans at home. They take 1/2 hr to an hour at most. I suspect NYC either doesn't give their teachers enough prep time, or doesn't have PLC time built into their schedules (all math teachers meet several times a week to do lesson plans and share resources, assessments, etc.) because it really sounds from imamother that every teacher in NYC is operating like a one-man band! Of course people there are burned out and disgusted with the system!

Smileforamile, again you're scaring OP with stories that can only happen in NYC! I can't see any administrator in any school except inner-city ones get away with perpetuating the horrors you speak of. You teach in an off-the-wall population, with seriously deranged supervisors, and you're writing things about tenure I've NEVER heard of in my life. Seriously, it doesn't even sound legal. I'm incredulous! Yes, often the "blah" teachers get riffed when they're cutting down, but any teacher that's with the program and meeting expectations has a legal RIGHT to tenure at 4 years. I'vs never heard it work the way you're describing.

Just throwing this out there, OP: If you're teaching high school in such a district, you might as well teach middle. Smileforamile said (I think it was you) that they're just middle schoolers in disguise. Just saying that classroom management will be a much smaller issue if you start out with middle school at least until you have the system down pat. You can always move up to high school later...and maybe even teach your own grown-up middle school kids Very Happy.

Another thing: The amother guidance counselor above raised many good points about the home lives of even the middle and upper class kids. I can probably add several chapters to her novel about the stories these kids have. However, and this is a big one, she writes that she has full admin support and they work with her. Please realize that she is in a totally different position than a teacher with regards to administration. They need her. To the extent where it can come back to bite an admin if they drop the ball with any student. So while my principals and admins have always had o it r backs, and support the teachers, it's not like that all over. She's coming from a totally different angle as a counselor and not as a teacher.

Hope any of this made sense. 'Tis the hour for me (where's the yawn emoji?!)...


While I understand that being a school counselor is very different than a teacher, I think you would find that most teachers in my school would also agree that they have a good relationship with administration (as long as they aren’t a terrible teacher.) Also although my job is quite different in nature, I am on the same salary scale as teachers and am subject to the same rules with observations and evaluations etc.

Regarding school hours-it will definitely vary depending where you are. In my county they stagger buses based on grade level so all high schools start and end earliest and then middle school and then elementary school. My work hours are before 7 am (I try to be there 6:45 I’ve even had meetings at 6:45!) until 2:20 kids get out at 2:00. This would be true of any high school in my county. As another poster said some counties stagger each school so there is a lot of variance from high school to high school.
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amother




Gold


Post  Tue, Feb 05 2019, 5:27 pm
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Last edited by amother on Mon, Feb 11 2019, 11:47 am; edited 2 times in total
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InnerMe




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 4:44 pm
I'm not sure why but I find this subject fascinating. Groisamomma and smileforamile you have really interesting info on how the PSs work.
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