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Dispute with HVAC guy - was I in the right?
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amother




Taupe


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 9:46 am
amother wrote:
Please reread my post. I specified that if I take my car in for engine trouble, and the engine trouble reoccurs a few days later.

If I were to use your analogy (though comparing docs and mechanics is a stretch) - it were to be as follows. You took your child in for ear pain, and the doctor prescribed antibiotics for it. The pain disappears for two days, but then reappears a few days later. Did he miss something or not?


Yes, she missed that my child has a dairy allergy which is now causing ear infections. But it's not realistic for her to jump to that conclusion based on one ear infection.
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amother




Blush


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 9:49 am
It’s really hard to imagine that the HVAC guy is actually ok with the outcome that he has earned zero dollars. This is really not okay.
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causemommysaid




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 9:49 am
amother wrote:
Always get an estimate first before you agree to the job at the mechanic. It's foolish to leave it open ended.

How long does he owe her free trips? He already got the screen for her - something she is perfectly capable of doing. And what if it is a new issue?


It's not free trips its finishing the job.

He owes her to come out and see if the problem is related to the first problem free of charge.

She owes him labor and parts for any additional work he does unrelated to the first job.
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amother




Taupe


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 9:59 am
Op, I'm sure you've called someone else by now since you need heat. What did he have to say about what happened?
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amother




Teal


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:00 am
amother wrote:
Yes, she missed that my child has a dairy allergy which is now causing ear infections. But it's not realistic for her to jump to that conclusion based on one ear infection.


Well, that's the question the doc, or in this case, the mechanic needs to find the answer to. Was it an outlier, something normal that was overlooked, or something totally unrelated? Hence, imo, the proper way to handle such a situation is to make the service fee contingent on the present issue. If it was something that was overlooked, or his repair was faulty, then the service fee should be dropped. If its something unrelated, then the full fee should be charged.

I find it a bit odd that a repair guy should put up such a tough stance about taking a second look at his work, especially since its literally 5 days thereafter. We're all humans, and we all make mistakes. If something breaks 5 days after you worked on it, is it implausible that the fix was somewhat flawed? As long as the homeowner is willing to pay the full fee if its unrelated to the initial visit, then why shouldn't a repair guy take a second look?
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amother




Tangerine


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:04 am
causemommysaid wrote:
It's not free trips its finishing the job.

He owes her to come out and see if the problem is related to the first problem free of charge.

She owes him labor and parts for any additional work he does unrelated to the first job.


You have no clue if it's finishing the job or it is a new issue - neither does the repairman or OP. The heat was working fine when he left.

The repairman seems like a real mensch. If it was the knob again, then you can start negotiating. But to say upfront that he didn't finish the job is wrong.

How many times is he expected to come back for free?
Do you think it was reasonable for OP to ask him to pick up the filter for her and only pay cost with no tip?
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amother




Tangerine


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:05 am
amother wrote:
Well, that's the question the doc, or in this case, the mechanic needs to find the answer to. Was it an outlier, something normal that was overlooked, or something totally unrelated? Hence, imo, the proper way to handle such a situation is to make the service fee contingent on the present issue. If it was something that was overlooked, or his repair was faulty, then the service fee should be dropped. If its something unrelated, then the full fee should be charged.

I find it a bit odd that a repair guy should put up such a tough stance about taking a second look at his work, especially since its literally 5 days thereafter. We're all humans, and we all make mistakes. If something breaks 5 days after you worked on it, is it implausible that the fix was somewhat flawed? As long as the homeowner is willing to pay the full fee if its unrelated to the initial visit, then why shouldn't a repair guy take a second look?


This would be his 3rd trip there within the week.
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amother




Taupe


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:07 am
amother wrote:
Well, that's the question the doc, or in this case, the mechanic needs to find the answer to. Was it an outlier, something normal that was overlooked, or something totally unrelated? Hence, imo, the proper way to handle such a situation is to make the service fee contingent on the present issue. If it was something that was overlooked, or his repair was faulty, then the service fee should be dropped. If its something unrelated, then the full fee should be charged.

I find it a bit odd that a repair guy should put up such a tough stance about taking a second look at his work, especially since its literally 5 days thereafter. We're all humans, and we all make mistakes. If something breaks 5 days after you worked on it, is it implausible that the fix was somewhat flawed? As long as the homeowner is willing to pay the full fee if its unrelated to the initial visit, then why shouldn't a repair guy take a second look?


Do you know anyone who would have the chutzpah to walk into the doctor's office and refuse to pay for th second ear infection, because it could have been prevented if she had realized it's related to his allergy? Yeah, this isn't really different. He shouldn't take a second look for free because his time is worth money. Same as the doctor.
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amother




Blush


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:08 am
In short... if you are a home owner... get your furnace on a maintenance schedule. Take care of your things, avoid conflict, stay warm.
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amother




Taupe


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:08 am
Duplicate
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amother




Teal


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:13 am
amother wrote:
Do you know anyone who would have the chutzpah to walk into the doctor's office and refuse to pay for th second ear infection, because it could have been prevented if she had realized it's related to his allergy? Yeah, this isn't really different. He shouldn't take a second look for free because his time is worth money. Same as the doctor.


Doctors charge less on return visits related to the same issue (I'm self pay, so I know this personally.) There is always an initial fee visit, plus the cost of whatever services were performed. But if I come back within a few days related to the same issue, the fee for the visit is always waived. They just charge for the services rendered.

Not only that, sometimes, they don't charge me at all. I recently had an IUD implanted. For some reason, it didn't take properly. They removed it a few days later and implanted a new one for no charge at all.
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amother




Taupe


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:18 am
amother wrote:
Doctors charge less on return visits related to the same issue (I'm self pay, so I know this personally.) There is always an initial fee visit, plus the cost of whatever services were performed. But if I come back within a few days related to the same issue, the fee for the visit is always waived. They just charge for the services rendered.

Not only that, sometimes, they don't charge me at all. I recently had an IUD implanted. For some reason, it didn't take properly. They removed it a few days later and implanted a new one for no charge at all.


Sounds like you have generous doctors but that isn't standard policy.

ETA also, I'm assuming your experience is with doctors whom you see on an ongoing basis. I don't think you would have the same experience if you were seeing a specialist for the first time.
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causemommysaid




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:19 am
amother wrote:
You have no clue if it's finishing the job or it is a new issue - neither does the repairman or OP. The heat was working fine when he left.

The repairman seems like a real mensch. If it was the knob again, then you can start negotiating. But to say upfront that he didn't finish the job is wrong.

How many times is he expected to come back for free?
Do you think it was reasonable for OP to ask him to pick up the filter for her and only pay cost with no tip?


No. I think the whole filter thing is weird. However it is completely unrelated and he never should have offered and then used it against her now. She also shouldn't have asked for him to buy it and bring it over but that whole saga is unrelated to the repair.

As far as the actual repair- she paid him to fix her heat. He supposedly fixed it but it broke 5 days later. He should come out and check his work to be sure he didn't miss something. If he missed something then he should fix it for free up to the $120 he earned and she should pay anything additional that it would cost above $120. If it's an unrelated problem then he should fix it and she should pay for the new repair. Is that really so unreasonable?
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octopus




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:29 am
amother wrote:
Quote:
just as a hypothetical (since it's resolved)


I actually don't think it's resolved; I think you need to ask a shaila and find out if it's allowed to do this.

I run a small private practice as a therapist, and have unfortunately found the frum community to be a hassle to deal with because of issues like this. I try hard not to let it affect me, but I'm to the point where I prefer to take a non-Jewish client over a Jew. I know that's wrong, and like I said, I try not to actually do this. But many (not all) of the frum people act like you're out to cheat them, and they ask a million questions and think they know more than you (the person who's done this for a long time and knows exactly how to help their child). They expect a lot of extras (like free detailed advice over the phone) and take it for granted, don't even see it as a favor. It's a hassle to deal with them compared to my non-frum clients who accept what you say, do the home carryover activities you recommend, and see better progress from their kids because they're just doing the work and not wasting time on trying to "outsmart" the therapist.


There is something wrong with your post. Even you recognize it. Don't tell me all of your non-Jewish clients are perfectly wonderful and then you switch and call them non-frum clients. I can't even get started on all the things wrong here...you need to reframe. A million questions shows that they care about their kids and are trying to understand what you are saying. You just like clients that do as they are told, don't ask questions, hmmmm....sounds a lot like elementary school...
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amother




Tangerine


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:30 am
causemommysaid wrote:
No. I think the whole filter thing is weird. However it is completely unrelated and he never should have offered and then used it against her now. She also shouldn't have asked for him to buy it and bring it over but that whole saga is unrelated to the repair.

As far as the actual repair- she paid him to fix her heat. He supposedly fixed it but it broke 5 days later. He should come out and check his work to be sure he didn't miss something. If he missed something then he should fix it for free up to the $120 he earned and she should pay anything additional that it would cost above $120. If it's an unrelated problem then he should fix it and she should pay for the new repair. Is that really so unreasonable?


He didn't offer. She asked him to go to "the parts store". He never used it against her. He discovered he can't deal with unreasonable customers. I couldn't deal with OP either.

You don't have an understanding of what a service call is which is why you are not being reasonable. The $120 is only for sending a truck and a man. She doesn't get up to $120 in parts included. How would this guy make a living?

The truck, the insurance, the taxes, gas, the maintenance, and the man's experience is all included in the $120. It is a lot cheaper for OP to go to home depot than it is for a commercial guy.
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amother




Teal


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:36 am
amother wrote:
Sounds like you have generous doctors but that isn't standard policy.

ETA also, I'm assuming your experience is with doctors whom you see on an ongoing basis. I don't think you would have the same experience if you were seeing a specialist for the first time.


No - It's the same experience all the way around. With specialists, ob/gyn, pediatricians, eye doctors, etc. I've yet to be charged a fee visit for a return visit that's within a reasonable time.
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amother




Cyan


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:37 am
amother wrote:
He didn't offer. She asked him to go to "the parts store". He never used it against her. He discovered he can't deal with unreasonable customers. I couldn't deal with OP either.

You don't have an understanding of what a service call is which is why you are not being reasonable. The $120 is only for sending a truck and a man. She doesn't get up to $120 in parts included. How would this guy make a living?

The truck, the insurance, the taxes, gas, the maintenance, and the man's experience is all included in the $120. It is a lot cheaper for OP to go to home depot than it is for a commercial guy.


This
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causemommysaid




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:38 am
amother wrote:
He didn't offer. She asked him to go to "the parts store". He never used it against her. He discovered he can't deal with unreasonable customers. I couldn't deal with OP either.

You don't have an understanding of what a service call is which is why you are not being reasonable. The $120 is only for sending a truck and a man. She doesn't get up to $120 in parts included. How would this guy make a living?

The truck, the insurance, the taxes, gas, the maintenance, and the man's experience is all included in the $120. It is a lot cheaper for OP to go to home depot than it is for a commercial guy.


I pay repair pple all the time. They charge a service call and then add that to the cost of the repair. So when my washing machine broke I paid 90 dollars for him to come and then it was 225 to repair it. He didn't charge 90 plus 225. He charged 225 total. That's what I'm saying. If it's related to the knob then it's part of the initial call. If its unrelated she pays for the new repair.

As for the filter, he should have said no.
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amother




Periwinkle


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:51 am
This seems like pretty standard operating procedure. But as a business person, I’d get rid of you as a customer ASAP if you dealt with me as you did him. Now he isn’t paid for anything.
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amother




Gray


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 1:05 pm
amother wrote:
No - It's the same experience all the way around. With specialists, ob/gyn, pediatricians, eye doctors, etc. I've yet to be charged a fee visit for a return visit that's within a reasonable time.


I have a co-pay and have needed to pay it 3x in one week when I didn't feel well and I kept going back. I've never heard of a doctor doing otherwise.
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