Tuition Assistance and SAHM's

monkeys

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 1:32 pm

mig100 wrote:

kudos to you- you sound like the type that others turn to and rely on for a helping hand.

I think I can sum up this whole thread with 2 principals

1) everyone sahm /those who dont have kids/ working moms and everyone else should do what they can to help others if/ when they have time. chesed to others is beutiful - though of course not at expense of a persons responsibilities, energy , resources et.

2) no one should expect others - especially sahm to be available to help them. helping others should volunteery not demanded. how much free time someone has depends on MANY factors not just- how many kids and how many hours they work. we have no clue what is going on in others life.

This exactly. You said it a lot nicer than me Smile

southernbubby

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 1:33 pm

amother wrote:

I think this is flawed thinking, we've lost what it means to really be a community. In a community, we should be there to support each other and extend ourselves to help our neighbors with the understanding that when they are able, they will do the same.

Except that in many schools, the majority of the families ask for assistance. The few have to support the many. The community is everyone in it.
If it was inconvenient for your neighbor to drive carpool, would you be willing to go everyday?

amother

Blonde

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 1:46 pm

Sorry, but this is a really odd way of looking at things. Every single family has its own way of doing things because of its own unique circumstances. It's completely up to the school to decide if they're willing to give a tuition break based on the circumstances that are shared with them. It's no one else's business whatsoever what those circumstances are. I don't care who you are and how much tuition you pay, if you're not on the committee you're irrelevant.

Oh, and I work, and I would never in a million years be comfortable having random parents babysit my kids for free.

SixOfWands

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 2:34 pm

chicco wrote:

Maybe people with a heter for BC should watch other people's million kids.

That came put harsher than I wanted it to. The point is, everyone's circumstances are different, and we can't demand things of them just because they seem to have it 'easier'.

She's not saying that SAHMs have it "easier." She's saying that those who choose not to work, and accept tuition assistance because of that decision, should be required to give back to the community in some way by helping those who help give that assistance.

As I said, I disagree with her. But I do understand her point.

SixOfWands

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 2:37 pm

amother wrote:

We are already a community resource. It usually works out that SAHM end up doing more for the community than working moms. SAHMs are expected to be available to get kids off the bus, run car pools, and do class errands anyway. I usually end up doing way more than my share of carpooling as a SAHM. I am also the one that would get the calls to get the kids off the bus if the working mom is going to be late.

In terms of cooking for others, the SAHMs end up doing most of the meals. We visit the sick and end up doing chessed driving. I have volunteered as a substitute teacher when the schools had no money to pay subs. And we pay full tuition.

As I noted above, my experience has always been the opposite. Its almost always a working mom who is class mom and head of the PTA. My sitter was always the one taking kids off the bus and looking after kids with SAHMs (and no one ever tipped her for helping out). And I'm one of the main meal organizers.

chicco

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 2:54 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

But that's exactly my point. We don't know if and what they are "choosing." The reality is, in most cases they are doing what they can do. There's an automatic assumption there that there is a luxury that isn't being earned and therefore something is owed. Everybody's personal circumstances apply to them, and them only.

If I looked at my full tuition payments as having anything to do with anyone else other than my family (ie, me paying for someone else), I would be resentful. But it is irrelevant. I look at it that I pay for my kids. And when I need something, that is a function of my lifestyle not anyone else's, and it is my job to figure it out, people don't owe me.

This is why communism doesn't work. All things are not equal, and all circumstances are not the same. We do the best we can.

southernbubby

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 2:56 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Some schools have a variety of ways to help the school that helps offset tuition. It doesn't matter what the employment status of the parents is. They have to pay tuition with sweat equity. I think that one option may be some type of child care help for staff members.
Obviously the parent has to be capable of carrying out the chosen task.

thunderstorm

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 2:57 pm

chicco wrote:

Thanks for putting my thoughts into words. I agree with you 100%

amother

Slategray

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 3:00 pm

I’m sorry but I disagree with op. I was a working mom for many years. Currently a sahm since I need a break. I volunteer for many orgs and busier than many working moms. I end up voluneering a lot at school because “I am more available”. I do many things extra because I am a sahm. My body is worn from working full time for so many years.

southernbubby

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 3:09 pm

chicco wrote:

As has been noted many times, there are those who take advantage of others. While that is their cheshbon with Hashem, other parents have the right to being charged fairly.

Communism is where the government controls everything but yeshivas are socialist and socialist countries are much of the world. Socialism means everyone according to his abilities and everything according to the person's needs. The society defines the needs.

amother

Blonde

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 3:14 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Most parents who feel they're not being charged fairly will take their tuition dollars elsewhere. Many of them have no clue what's actually happening though.

amother

Tan

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 3:29 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

I don't think a working mom with household help faces the same challenges as a regular working women like OP. Where I live either one works or one stays home. I don't know anyone who has a baby sitter in their home while they work. I think it is great that you make your babysitter a community resource. I hope you compensate her extra since you know the ladies don't tip.

What is a meal organizer? Do you just organize who cooks? Or do you actually cook and transport the meals? And if you are coming these meals, when do you do it?

I my experience, the SAHMs are the class moms. I am the mom that went on the class trips. I am the mom that opens her home to the class BBQs and Shabbatons. I have the time to plan these parties.

I think it is great that you can do all you do. My evenings belong to my kids. Any thing that I do for the community is during school hours.

mig100

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 3:33 pm

monkeys wrote:

This exactly. You said it a lot nicer than me Smile

Thanks.

I feel like this thread is bringing out everyones hard feelings - about tuition breaks, sahm feeling they being looked at as if they have all time in the world and are sitting on the beach all day.

can I reframe things? now I work. at some point down the line I may stop when I feel its not financially worth the extra money for the stress it puts- if I can financially manage. at that point- id be more than happy to help working mothers who face the urgent " oh no my babysitter wont take my baby with fever, I cant possibly take off another day, neither can my husband and I have no family near by"

of course if I felt someone was expecting too much/ demanding unreasonably/ taking advantage or not being appreciative- id probably would say no even if I was available.

I just want to emphasize 2 points

1) I think this has little to do with sahm/ working mom and tuition breaks. there are working moms- ( for example ones who teach and are off more) who can be part of the volunteer list. everyone who can should offer to help IF they can easily.

2) its completely unfair to assume sahm are always available and doing nothing. there can be many different reasons someone stops working. for example, if someone is going through a high-risk pregnancy and is told to stay on bedrest. I could give many more examples.

the exact situation makes no difference - my point is the same. everyone is entitled to nicely request a favor as long as they dont demand or expect a yes.

amother

Jetblack

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 3:36 pm

How do you know which sahms are paying full tuition and which are not? People don't exactly announce that. If someone is paying full tuition and has time, they are exempt from helping when someone needs help watching their kids?
I think the whole premise is wrong. People help when they can help, people pay when they can pay, people work when they can work. It is not an avaira to ask for help, and it is not an avaira to say no.

mig100

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 3:43 pm

amother wrote:

well said.

SixOfWands

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 3:54 pm

amother wrote:

My sitter is long gone, as my kids are teens now. No daycare where I live, or at least none open the hours I needed. And our sitter was treated well.

I often organize meals for people who need it. And I usually cook at least once in the schedule. I cook at night, after I get home. Everyone on my usual list of volunteers works, and cooks when they get home.

And its great that you do volunteer. But again, IME, its mostly the working moms who do it in my community.

southernbubby

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 4:19 pm

amother wrote:

We had 32 pages of the topic right before I moved to Monsey.
Both the community and the parents have the obligation of the chinuch of children. The problem is the definition of community. I see school buses from what seems like dozens of schools rattling by my window. When I lived in Detroit, there were maybe half a dozen day schools and yeshivas. It could be that some Chassidishe kehilahs take responsibility for the schools but it seems to me that many schools are private entities.
Now all of the schools need money to operate so how do we define the community that is responsible? The only thing that is clearly identified is the parents who are primarily responsible.

amother

Puce

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 5:27 pm

In the school my sibling went to every parent had a "tuition" amount they were responsible. There were no breaks except for substantial hardship (death of a parent etc.) Parents were responsible for this amount no matter what. They could either raise the tuition through donations, pay the tuition themselves in the normal way, or they could perform community service for the school. For instance, some parents volunteered in a major way for extracurricular activities (sports coach, play head), they volunteered as substitute teachers, the repainted the building.
There wasn't really a sense of shame associated with it. It just was they way it was. I think this was a more fair way of dealing with tuition.
OTOH I think that a women who voluntarily decides to stay home (not because they are on bedrest etc.) should not get the full tuition break she may get if the income was the same and they were both working. IMO wanting to run your home in the way you feel is ideal and therefore staying home is ridiculous. If you can afford to do so and still pay full tuition, great. If not, there should be some way of making it up.

dankbar

Tue, Feb 05 2019, 6:04 pm

When you take on a job all these things you have to take into the equation. Arrange babysitting, who will take care of them on off days or when sick....if finanancially, job is worth it, after babysitting expenses. Why is it the responsibility of the sahm to take care of your kids? When there is off from school, they are already having their own large family home, & being that they are sahm, why shouldn't they spend family time, just because your kids nebech can't have their own parents home to spend time with....it is your choice to go work that day or spend family time with them them.

OP makes it sound like it's an aveirah for mom not to work. It's community thing...by some, most moms with large families are home & the ones that need to work, are the nebech & some communities it's the thing, that women must work, if not they fall out of society....people start thinking either they're lazy, rich or mentally ill....come on, give everyone a break!

OP, I understand that it's frustrating for you to find someone to watch your kids yet again, but it is your responsibility, no one else's