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-> Vacation and Traveling
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amother
Lilac
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 Tue, Feb 05 2019, 5:44 pm
We recently went away with the kids, and while we had a good time by day, the place we stayed at night was a disaster. Examples:
The flush lever on the toilet in our room was hanging off the toilet and only flushed once every 5 times or so. The toilet also had a leak that ended up flooding the entire bathroom. The plumber who came to fix it couldn't find the tool he needed to fix it because he had lent it to them the week before for a different plumbing emergency and they never returned it to him!
The shower in our room alternated between normal pressure and no pressure, but was always boiling hot. The kids' bathroom had normal pressure, but only cold water.
The non-adjustable thermostat was fine during the week, but ended up set at 65 for Shabbos, and I froze!
We specifically asked them about wifi because DH needed it for work, and they said they have wifi, but in reality it couldn't even load Google. DH used up all his data for the month working off his phone, and still couldn't finish.
Drawers in cabinets didn't close fully, the TV didn't work at all, the clock in our room was still set to summer daylight savings time!
You get the picture. Normally we'd just dispute the credit card charge, as we took pics to document all of this. The problem is that the people we rented from are frum. They tried to be nice and resolve what they could (e.g. calling the plumber), but the reality is that we weren't given a livable situation, though they seem to be in denial about just how bad it was.
WWYD if you were in this situation? I assume people will say that the first step is to call and try to resolve a (partial?) refund from the owner. If the total cost was $600, what would be a reasonable compensation to receive? If they won't budge, can we go to the credit card? Or is this a question for a LOR?
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amother
cornflower
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 6:14 pm
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I would do the same if the owners where frum or not. Business is business.
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amother
Periwinkle
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 6:17 pm
I would do nothing.
(maybe complain on imamother to vent).
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amother
Peach
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 6:18 pm
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I think I would be mevater.
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amother
Linen
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 6:19 pm
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The proper thing to do is send them a written list of complaints, with a written request for a (partial) refund. If they refuse, bais din would be the next step.
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amother
Chartreuse
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 6:54 pm
BTDT plenty of times
There isn’t much to do except never use them again.
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amother
Lilac
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 6:57 pm
| amother wrote: | | I would do the same if the owners where frum or not. Business is business. |
OP here - and what is it that you would do - dispute charge, call/write for refund, nothing, ...?
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amother
Lilac
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 6:58 pm
| amother wrote: | BTDT plenty of times
There isn’t much to do except never use them again. |
Why is there nothing to at least try to do? Why don't you view calling/writing for a refund, or disputing the credit card charge as valid options?
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amother
Floralwhite
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 7:01 pm
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If you do decide to do something (no idea what), don't mux up things like a leaky toilet that doesn't work (serious) with a clock set on daylight savings time (unimportant).
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amother
Linen
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 7:04 pm
| amother wrote: | | OP here - and what is it that you would do - dispute charge, call/write for refund, nothing, ...? |
Disputing the charge is probably very problematic halachically as a first step. Per halacha you're probably not entitled to a full refund, which is what a dispute would lead to (if you succeeded). In that case you would have stolen money.
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amother
Cobalt
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 7:06 pm
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I would call them and if they don't give in dispute the charge.
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amother
Periwinkle
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 7:08 pm
| amother wrote: | | Why is there nothing to at least try to do? Why don't you view calling/writing for a refund, or disputing the credit card charge as valid options? |
Disputing the credit card charge seems a bit too much for me. You stayed there for the duration of your stay.... but check your policy.
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amother
Lilac
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 7:19 pm
| amother wrote: | | Disputing the credit card charge seems a bit too much for me. You stayed there for the duration of your stay.... but check your policy. |
DH wanted to leave when the toilet overflowed ... except there was no wifi to find another place to stay!
He thinks it's a mekach ta'us and we shouldn't have to pay anything. But as others said, I'm not so sure and don't want to overreach either.
That's why I asked in OP, what % of what I paid is reasonable to ask that they refund? If they don't agree, I think there's a way to dispute only part of a credit card charge, saying I got part of what I paid for, but not all of it, and that's what I want back, though I would verify it before doing so.
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amother
Linen
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 7:24 pm
| amother wrote: | DH wanted to leave when the toilet overflowed ... except there was no wifi to find another place to stay!
He thinks it's a mekach ta'us and we shouldn't have to pay anything. But as others said, I'm not so sure and don't want to overreach either.
That's why I asked in OP, what % of what I paid is reasonable to ask that they refund? If they don't agree, I think there's a way to dispute only part of a credit card charge, saying I got part of what I paid for, but not all of it, and that's what I want back, though I would verify it before doing so. |
I very strongly believe that when you're dealing with Jewish people you need a psak from someone who paskens choshen mishpat specifically, if you're going to dispute and force the refund. That can be a shaila, or bais din. Otherwise, work it out with the owners yourself, but not via a dispute unless that's the psak you're given.
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amother
cornflower
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 7:24 pm
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OP, I would insist on 1/2 the price, you did have a roof over your head.
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amother
Periwinkle
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 7:27 pm
| amother wrote: | DH wanted to leave when the toilet overflowed ... except there was no wifi to find another place to stay!
He thinks it's a mekach ta'us and we shouldn't have to pay anything. But as others said, I'm not so sure and don't want to overreach either.
That's why I asked in OP, what % of what I paid is reasonable to ask that they refund? If they don't agree, I think there's a way to dispute only part of a credit card charge, saying I got part of what I paid for, but not all of it, and that's what I want back, though I would verify it before doing so. |
Make your claim directly with the people who rented you the property. Personally I would focus on the unexpected cost not having WIFI which was promised. The majority of what you paid for was access to a roof over your head - which you got.
I would deal with the Bais Din before bringing in the credit card company.
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WhatFor
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 7:31 pm
Sounds awful but if DH had data for work why didn't you use that data to find another place, inconvenient as that is? You presumably also had phones?
I do think you might have an issue with getting a refund because you chose to stay there for the entire time during which time they could've theoretically rented it out to someone else. Unless you were somewhere isolated and there was no other hotel/anything rentable around for a very long distance?
You shouldn't have had to do that of course, and had you left after day 1, I'd think you should be refunded the cost of that day plus maybe the difference of how much more you had to pay at a comparable place nearby. It's weird to me, though, to dislike a service (for valid reasons, it sounds awful), keep using that service, and then expect a refund for your use of that service.
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Cheiny
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 7:32 pm
| amother wrote: | We recently went away with the kids, and while we had a good time by day, the place we stayed at night was a disaster. Examples:
The flush lever on the toilet in our room was hanging off the toilet and only flushed once every 5 times or so. The toilet also had a leak that ended up flooding the entire bathroom. The plumber who came to fix it couldn't find the tool he needed to fix it because he had lent it to them the week before for a different plumbing emergency and they never returned it to him!
The shower in our room alternated between normal pressure and no pressure, but was always boiling hot. The kids' bathroom had normal pressure, but only cold water.
The non-adjustable thermostat was fine during the week, but ended up set at 65 for Shabbos, and I froze!
We specifically asked them about wifi because DH needed it for work, and they said they have wifi, but in reality it couldn't even load Google. DH used up all his data for the month working off his phone, and still couldn't finish.
Drawers in cabinets didn't close fully, the TV didn't work at all, the clock in our room was still set to summer daylight savings time!
You get the picture. Normally we'd just dispute the credit card charge, as we took pics to document all of this. The problem is that the people we rented from are frum. They tried to be nice and resolve what they could (e.g. calling the plumber), but the reality is that we weren't given a livable situation, though they seem to be in denial about just how bad it was.
WWYD if you were in this situation? I assume people will say that the first step is to call and try to resolve a (partial?) refund from the owner. If the total cost was $600, what would be a reasonable compensation to receive? If they won't budge, can we go to the credit card? Or is this a question for a LOR? |
The question (legally) will be how long did u stay there? If conditions were truly awful you’ll be asked to explain why you stayed longer than one night....you can try to negotiate a partial refund with the people but should ask your rabbi.
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causemommysaid
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 7:40 pm
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Ask a rabbi but I'm leaning towards disputing the charge if that's allowed.
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octopus
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Tue, Feb 05 2019, 7:43 pm
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did you get their rental through a website? give them a bad review
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