DD7 dislikes me and treats me horribly- long

amother

Pumpkin

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 3:50 am

DD7, the youngest of several children by a few years, treats me with disdain. She'll barrel in after school and, as soon as she sees me, starts talking in a belligerent nasty tone. An offer of a drink and snack is met with mimicking or with that mocking tone kids use to tease or even bully, but then she demands something (anything) else. My usual response is, "When you can ask nicely I'd love to help you," which might earn the response of, "a normal mother would serve ... right away!" Any request/ reminder to do ANYTHING is ignored or met with a tantrum. A few times a week the screaming and tantruming prompt me to tell her to go to her room until she's calm enough to join everyone (and yes, her older siblings complain bitterly about her behavior), which of course means that I'm "the meanest Mommy." She also tells me that I "make her mad" by talking to her, and any instruction ("those dirty tissues need to go in the garbage') means that I'm 'yelling' at her. She tells me that she only wants her father because HE's patient (DH is great n many ways but patience is not his forte). Clothes shopping is disastrous- she comes with an attitude and barely does me a favor by 'accepting' something she wants. I'm the sah creative mom who bakes and does projects with my kids, but, though the friends she brings love it, she still criticizes anything I do or suggest while continuing to ask for me to do projects with them. She accuses me of cheating and has tantrums when I play games with her. And no, I have no desire to cheat at checkers and spit!

Yes, we do have pleasant interactions, and she does come to me for comfort when she's hurt, but there still seems to be something seriously wrong with our relationship.

I know this is only part of the problem (she does not save all her tantrums for me!) but I feel like I can't begin to help her until I get our relationship back on course and I simply don't know what to do!

simcha2

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 6:09 am

It sounds like she is deeply unhappy. She knows you'll love her no matter what, so all her unhappiness is directed at you. She feels safest with you, so treats you the worst.

I don't think you need to fix your relationship. I think you need to find the source of her troubles.

Just my completely unqualified opinion.

asmileaday

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:31 am

I think it's time to take her to a behavioral therapist. This sounds pretty intense. Many times, an outsider can completely change your child's attitude. You'd also want to get professional advice on how you should act and react.
Keep a journal of all incidents so when you speak with a therapist you have clear examples of what's going on.

mha3484

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:42 am

I think you would benefit from reading the book the explosive child. It really helps kids like this. A lot of the same information is also on www.livesinthebalance.org as well.

Chayalle

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:52 am

What everyone else here said.

I also want to share something that helped me alot with one of my kids. I once vented to neighbor of mine who is in Chinuch, someone I respect very much both as a person and as a parent. Based on what I told her about my child (who was 2 1/2 at the time, but a very strong personality, tantrums for every move), she told me that Dina Friedman describes two different types of personalities in children - she called them type 1 and type 2. The type 1 child is attention seeking, and this type is more common....but the type 2 child is power seeking, and my child is in that category.

Basically, I was showering her with love and attention, but she was looking for something else. She wanted to be in charge. Already at age 2 1/2. Her need wasn't being met, so she was acting out.

So I learned to give her choices at that young age. I never took out an outfit in the morning to dress her in - I took out two, and asked her if she'd like the blue one or the red one. Morning tantrums disappeared.

Instead of saying "those dirty tissues belong in the garbage" I learned to say "do you want to put the tissues in the garbage and then have a snack?" because then she was making a choice. Do you want to go to bed now, or read first for 10 minutes (of course, 10 minutes before bedtime...) When do you want to do h.w., now or in 1/2 an hour? You want to try this store first for Y"T shopping, or should we try that store?

Over the years I got really used to giving her options, and it has made a huge difference.

I'm not sure if this is a factor with your child, but posting in case it helps you.

The Explosive Child also gave me alot of perspective, because this particular child is less flexible than my other children. It's how Hashem made her. I know she's not just gonna bounce with the program automatically. It's not how she's wired.

But giving her time to shift, and choices to make, has preserved my relationship with her to a great extent.

Wishing you much Hatzlacha.

amother

Teal

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 11:31 am

simcha2 wrote:

I thought exactly this when reading the op... please try to find out why she is in pain

amother

Powderblue

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 12:31 pm

Just wanted to second Chayalle.

Try giving choices! It helped me a lot and after a while it becomes 2nd nature. And then after a while, you begin to ask oh why that choice? and you learn some very interesting things! and it helps you love your kid even more because you become awed by that little brain and the reasoning they have.

Fox

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 12:38 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Basically, I was showering her with love and attention, but she was looking for something else. She wanted to be in charge. Already at age 2 1/2. Her need wasn't being met, so she was acting out.

I think Chayalle nailed this one!

I also have a DD who gravitates to power rather than attention, and while it's a tough row to hoe when they're little, these kids will give you nachas beyond your wildest dreams.

When Clementine was born, I turned my head to where the nurses were cleaning her off. I saw that it was quite literally taking three nurses to hold down this 9-lb. morsel and dab ineffectually at her. She was kicking and punching so effectively that they could barely wipe her off and check her vitals. And that was the first 5 minutes of her life.

Clem was the unhappiest baby I've ever seen. She cried and fussed not out of discomfort, but out of powerlessness. Each developmental step made her happier. When she learned to sit up; when she learned to crawl; when she learned to talk . . . you could see her palpable relief that she was getting closer to adulthood. When she was 2 and went to playgroup, she was ecstatic.

I discovered by accident that Clem didn't want a "mommy." She wanted a mentor. So that's pretty much how I treated her. I tried to envision myself as an executive who was bringing up a protege through the ranks. If tissues needed cleaning up, I'd say, "I think we should tidy this room up in case people stop by. Can I put you in charge of making sure there's no garbage while I get the vacuum?"

You can imagine how this went over with Clementine's school, where the teachers and administrators viewed giving the slightest power to children as shameful capitulation. In fact, after a year of high school, we home-schooled her.

I don't want to make this sound easy. There were times when it was downright hellish.
But I spent hours and hours and hours just talking to Clem as a mentor, not a mother. No instructions; no approval or disapproval; pretending as if I were somewhat disinterested. We talked about anything and everything . . . hashkafa, things she'd read; psychology; current events; cooking . . . you name it. I also found a therapist who taught her ways to calm herself when she felt overwhelmed and powerless, and that helped a great deal.

But we got through it. I'm not going to detail everything Clem has done because I'll sound like one of those thoroughly obnoxious mothers who thinks her child is all-that-and-a-bag-of-chips. Long story short: Clem is now 24, and this month's problem is deciding whether to apply for a doctoral program in neuropsychology.

In short, I recommend the books Chayalle suggested, and I second her suggestion that you give your DD any and every opportunity to be in charge -- of anything! The more agency she feels in her own life, the fewer tantrums she'll have, and it wouldn't hurt to find a therapist who can teach her how to identify options in how she responds and choose how to behave.

But in addition to what Chayalle has said, here's my advice: you're going to meet plenty of people who will tell you your DD has a "problem." You're going to meet plenty of people who will criticize your parenting because your DD isn't docile and occasionally has a bit of a mouth on her. To heck with them!

I'll share one story at the risk of being seen as a braggart: Last Purim a middle-aged man came to our door bearing a simple bag with a soft drink and some cookies. We had no idea who he was. He sat down at the table with my DH and explained that his teenage daughter, who suffered from significant physical disabilities, had been paired with Clem at Yachad events in the past. Though he knew Clem was living in NY, he wanted to come by anyway because his daughter loves Clem so much, and they still email one another. He proceeded to tell us a number of stories illustrating Clem's gift for making sure Yachad participants were cared for and had fun -- but without compromising their dignity.

DH and I had no idea. We knew she volunteered at Yachad events but she'd never discussed it in much detail. The 20 minutes that man spent at our dining room table made all the uncomfortable conversations with teachers and principals over the years completely worth it!

OP, a kid who wants power can be a challenge, for sure. But don't think of this trait as something to squash. Think of it as something to channel so that she'll be prepared to use her power for good.

amother

Seashell

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 12:43 pm

I have a child like this, and I discovered that it's very much related to other factors in her life. When she's unhappy socially or other things are going on at school, she doesn't express any of that. She probably doesn't recognize it on a conscious level herself. Instead, she takes out all her unhappiness on me and her siblings. I try to find a balance of addressing only what I feel crosses the line in terms of her behavior, and I'm very very consistent with that. I also worked on fixing some of the underlying happiness, behind the scenes and without her knowledge since she would not have been open to discussing or collaborating. She's a sensitive child underneath it all, and small things affect her deeply.

gibberish

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 1:37 pm

Behavior is communication. Has she always been like this? If not, I would explore deeper and find out if there if anything going on at school or elsewhere.
If she has always been like this, then I would recommend a full evaluation to see what interventions can help.
Good luck!

naomi2

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:12 pm

The most interesting part of the post is the ridiculing and mocking. That sounds contemptuous and not a usual response to frustration or feeling helpless.
Also, giving choices and the "explosive child book" are not the same method. The explosive child book has the child come up with solutions because giving choices is still considered controlling to some degree. It's a great and useful book I just wonder if there is more going on here.

flmommy

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:49 pm

Could be oppositional defiant. Google it. One thing that struck me is that it is only with you. With oppositional defiant behavior this can be the case. A behavior therapist/counselor can help you with solutions.

oneofakind

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 3:42 pm

You need a good evaluation to figure out what's going on over here.

amother

Pink

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 4:15 pm

I have a sibling like that. He treats my mother the worst because he knows she will always love her. The people he is afraid of losing their relationship he acts nicer to. Some types of kids (and adults) the nicer you are to them the more they treat you like garbage. The solution is to back off a little and not show your love for them when they are acting inappropriately. This I have seen worked for a sibling of mine. We are both adults. But then again it was easier to do because it was a sibling and there is so much I cared if our relationship goes sour. But it did work and he treats me nicely today. A parent might feel like there is more at steak. I had a similar experience with my daughters friend. I would be extra nice and invite her to play ( preschool kid) and she would mock me. At a certain point I stopped being friendly and warm to that kid. And talking to her a bit cold. She changed so dramatically.

Also my unqualified opinion. And I agree she may benefit from evaluation and good therapist.