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Advice re unmarried sister and mother.
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amother




Yellow


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:05 pm
I have a sister who is a kallah and definitely loves to talk on the phone. Our mother made a rule of no calls passed 11pm because her friends were calling and waking people up and my sister would talk all night discussing shtissim and our father agreed it was not a good example for the rest of the child. In the past, if it was work related our mother never had an issue with us talking even well into the wee hours of the night.
Now she unplugs the phone and disconnects it after 11pm because of my sister and her friends and their calls. We're chassidish and having a cell phone as an unmarried girl is not accepted for us. My sister is also on the same page hashkafically so she agrees it is not a good idea for her to have a cell phone.
I have a lot of extra phones from DH's employees and my sister has taken a few of them. I'm not here to parent her so I don't say anything. Our mother eventually finds these phones or hears my sister talking and takes them away. My sister asked me for another phone and I'm not sure if I should give it to her or just tell her to ask someone else.
Our mother has never confronted me about it because although she probably knows it is me, our mother does not believe in parenting married children and wouldn't tell me what to do but I feel it's not respectful of me to do something openly I know she does not agree with even if she didnt say anything yet.
Anyways, WWYD - get your sister another phone, tell your mother, ignore?
TIA
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amother




Purple


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:08 pm
I'm sorry to say, but it's not fair if your mom to impose rules on a kallah, she's not a child!
And by now it's very accepted for chassidish girls to have cell phones, especially a kallah.
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causemommysaid




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:13 pm
if your sister is an adult ready to get married then I think she can make her own decisions about when she wants to talk on the phone. She shouldn't disturb your parents late at night though. I don't think you need to get involved here. you can give her the phone or you can tell her to get it on her own.
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watergirl




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:14 pm
Who is paying the cell phone bill?
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:19 pm
causemommysaid wrote:
if your sister is an adult ready to get married then I think she can make her own decisions about when she wants to talk on the phone. She shouldn't disturb your parents late at night though. I don't think you need to get involved here. you can give her the phone or you can tell her to get it on her own.


I agree, pretty much.

BUT

The phones, not to mention service, can't be free for OP, and she's lost a few of them already. If I were her, I'd tell her sister that she's an adult, if she wants a phone, she needs to purchase one -- prepaid or on a plan -- and tell her mother that she has no right to take it away. OP shouldn't get in the middle.
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:25 pm
I think you are all a bit wrong and a bit right.

*I agree with your mother about setting a limit to phone calls at a certain hour. It's healthy for a family to shut down and shut eye by a certain time, generally speaking.
*I also think that the rule shouldn't be so ironclad. There should be some flexibility for those who need it. It doesn't matter if it's work related or social, whatever, if there's a need, it needs to be addressed.
*your sister is an adult and should make her own decisions. However, if she's up all night talking about nonsense, that's unhealthy and needs to be discussed/addressed.
*married siblings should not be breaking house rules in their parents' home.

So I don't think you should be giving your sister a phone. I think she should be taking it up with your parents. Your parents should be more open and flexible. Like she should get a cellphone (I mean for goodness sake, are they in denial that she's been having one anyway) and there should be limits to its use.

I have two teens with cellphones, and neither of them are on it past 11pm on a regular basis. I'm not policing them - they take care of themselves and have their own healthy phone habits, B"H.
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yksraya




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:37 pm
Many teens today, get their own phones. I dunno which chasidus you are. I'm satmar and many high school girls, even very ultra frum families are ok with their kid having a phone (mostly kosher flip phones). So it's entirely not unheard of for kallahs to have their own phones.

However, you can empathize with your sister, but I don't think it's ok for you to be the one providing her with the phone. Let her buy one herself. There are cheap plans for like $20 a month. If she works, she should be able to afford it.
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sequoia




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:38 pm
She takes the phone away from a person old enough to get engaged - ie, an adult.

Nope. I can’t. I just can’t. Trying to. But I can’t even.

Does no one understand that if she had a cell phone, she could text rather than call (as the entire universe except for chassidish people is doing - most people my age and younger have a terror of phone calls and voicemails because we’re so used to email/text) and not disturb the entire family.

Landlines being unplugged after 11, engaged women being controlled and punished by their parents, a cell phone (not even an iphone! a dumb phone with just call and text capabilities!) being somehow controversial - none of this sounds real. It sounds so insane it must be made up.
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:42 pm
sequoia wrote:
She takes the phone away from a person old enough to get engaged - ie, an adult.

Nope. I can’t. I just can’t. Trying to. But I can’t even.

Does no one understand that if she had a cell phone, she could text rather than call (as the entire universe except for chassidish people is doing - most people my age and younger have a terror of phone calls and voicemails because we’re so used to email/text) and not disturb the entire family.

Landlines being unplugged after 11, engaged women being controlled and punished by their parents, a cell phone (not even an iphone! a dumb phone with just call and text capabilities!) being somehow controversial - none of this sounds real. It sounds so insane it must be made up.


House rules apply to those who live in the house.
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:45 pm
amother wrote:
House rules apply to those who live in the house.


They also apply to people who interact with the people in the house, guests, and others.

For example, I expect guests to honor my house rules. If you visit us, please don't take any food upstairs, or to the basement. We eat only on the main floor, and preferably at the table - in the kitchen or in the dining room.

I would definitely expect my children, when they get married I"YH, to obey my house rules when visiting, or when interacting with those of my kids who are still living under my roof.
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amother




Purple


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:46 pm
Amother goldenrod, yes and no.
Is unfair to impose rules on adult children. Seems to me very controlling. The child should be considerate and talk in her room with a closed door & Mom can wear earplugs if the noise bothers her.
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yksraya




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:46 pm
amother wrote:
House rules apply to those who live in the house.

Rules are made to be bent...
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:49 pm
amother wrote:
Amother goldenrod, yes and no.
Is unfair to impose rules on adult children. Seems to me very controlling. The child should be considerate and talk in her room with a closed door & Mom can wear earplugs if the noise bothers her.


No. It is unreasonable to expect a mother and the owner of a home to place ear plugs in her ears to avoid hearing her child talk on the phone, which she is presumably opposed to both because of the time and noise as well as bshita.
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sequoia




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:50 pm
amother wrote:
House rules apply to those who live in the house.


And something like “be considerate of other people’s sleep - no ringing phones or loud conversations after 11 pm” is a perfectly legitimate house rule. One that I wholeheartedly support.

But *taking away* her cell phone the way you take a marker away from a four year old who’s been drawing on the walls? The young woman is engaged. At least 18 (hopefully!). The time for control and punishment is over. The mom might express her view of cell phone use, but what earthly good does taking it away do?
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:50 pm
amother wrote:
Amother goldenrod, yes and no.
Is unfair to impose rules on adult children. Seems to me very controlling. The child should be considerate and talk in her room with a closed door & Mom can wear earplugs if the noise bothers her.


Mom should not need to wear earplugs to deal with noises in her own house.

Teenager (I'm assuming here) should do what all teens have done at some point - figure out how not to get caught.
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greenfire




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:54 pm
wherever she obtains the phone from, it is utterly rude & disrespectful to steal someone's sleep ~ especially your mother !!!
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 2:56 pm
sequoia wrote:
And something like “be considerate of other people’s sleep - no ringing phones or loud conversations after 11 pm” is a perfectly legitimate house rule. One that I wholeheartedly support.

But *taking away* her cell phone the way you take a marker away from a four year old who’s been drawing on the walls? The young woman is engaged. At least 18 (hopefully!). The time for control and punishment is over. The mom might express her view of cell phone use, but what earthly good does taking it away do?


It reinforces the 'no cell phones in this house for unmarried people'.

Like most young adults I left home when I was ready to make my own house rules - but I respected my parents rules when I was living there.
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amother




Bronze


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 3:09 pm
Sorry I'm with Sequoia on this one. In what universe is one old enough to get married, but not to have a phone or talk to her friends a little later at night if needed?

This situation sounds totally off (and I'm also right wing, although not chassidish).
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dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 3:22 pm
I think you should enlighten your mom, that were in 2019 & she can't control a kallah & loosen her a grip a bit if she wants her to be a healthy adult
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dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 3:28 pm
Doesnt mom realize that her method is not working....the more cellphones she's taking away....the more she's finding....whats her rationale? Chinuch? It's over by now. A solution to the noise? It's not happening.

A better way to deal with it....is to give her permission to have a phone....& speak to her respectfully how to be considerate of others & use it appropiately....& trust her that she's adult.

Also so no she is not allowed a phone...the minute she gets a ring on her finger....she is allowed a phone? How will she know to use a phone responsibly & appropiately if she never owned one before. Then mom will also tell her which phone & when she's allowed to talk?

Don't want to think what she will do when she's free. Get the one that conforms to lowest standard of hashkafa? With open internet....
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