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Advice re unmarried sister and mother.
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amother




Green


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 3:31 pm
I strongly disagree with your mother's rule, but as a matter of kibbud eim I would not defy her by supplying cell phones. Your sister can buy her own phones if she wants.
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 3:38 pm
amother wrote:
Sorry I'm with Sequoia on this one. In what universe is one old enough to get married, but not to have a phone or talk to her friends a little later at night if needed?

This situation sounds totally off (and I'm also right wing, although not chassidish).


In what universe is one old enough to get married - but can't figure out how to follow house rules (or atleast work around them).

A cell phone “is a want", not a need.
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sequoia




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 3:41 pm
Who cares? I want pink fuzzy socks - wouldn’t it be insane if my mother forbade me from having them because I’m no one’s wife at the moment?!

ETA: goldenrod edited her post; originally it said that a cell phone “is a want, not a need,” and that’s what I was responding to.


Last edited by sequoia on Wed, Feb 06 2019, 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Purple


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 3:42 pm
Goldenrod, seems to me that this "house rule" is a means to control an adult child. Parents cannot tell adult children what to do. Part of having older teens/adult kids is that it wont be quiet at night, it's part of life. Its not right of a parent not to allow a kallah to talk on the phone at night in her own room.
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 3:53 pm
amother wrote:
Goldenrod, seems to me that this "house rule" is a means to control an adult child. Parents cannot tell adult children what to do. Part of having older teens/adult kids is that it wont be quiet at night, it's part of life. Its not right of a parent not to allow a kallah to talk on the phone at night in her own room.


Rules aren't about control - they are about order.

Mom makes the rules.

Its not my or anybody else's place to say what is 'right' or 'wrong' here.

I really don't see this as being controlling.
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 3:53 pm
sequoia wrote:
Who cares? I want pink fuzzy socks - wouldn’t it be insane if my mother forbade me from having them because I’m no one’s wife at the moment?!

ETA: goldenrod edited her post; originally it said that a cell phone “is a want, not a need,” and that’s what I was responding to.


I'm putting it back.
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 3:54 pm
amother wrote:
Goldenrod, seems to me that this "house rule" is a means to control an adult child. Parents cannot tell adult children what to do. Part of having older teens/adult kids is that it wont be quiet at night, it's part of life. Its not right of a parent not to allow a kallah to talk on the phone at night in her own room.


It could be hashkafic. Parents may not allow their children to wear certain clothing while under their room, but once married, will look the other way. It may also not be consistent with the message the parents wish to give to the other children.
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 3:56 pm
sequoia wrote:
Who cares? I want pink fuzzy socks - wouldn’t it be insane if my mother forbade me from having them because I’m no one’s wife at the moment?!

ETA: goldenrod edited her post; originally it said that a cell phone “is a want, not a need,” and that’s what I was responding to.


No - if its her responsibility to enforce the rules of the community for members of her household under her roof .... and the leaders say "no pink fuzzy socks".
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 4:00 pm
amother wrote:
Goldenrod, seems to me that this "house rule" is a means to control an adult child. Parents cannot tell adult children what to do. Part of having older teens/adult kids is that it wont be quiet at night, it's part of life. Its not right of a parent not to allow a kallah to talk on the phone at night in her own room.


That's absurd. I have a 20 year old and a 17 year old, and my house is quiet at night. It's part of life to respect that a household can shut down at a certain point.

(But they both have cellphones, and texting. And could speak quietly if they wished.)
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yksraya




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 4:00 pm
amother wrote:
Goldenrod, seems to me that this "house rule" is a means to control an adult child. Parents cannot tell adult children what to do. Part of having older teens/adult kids is that it wont be quiet at night, it's part of life. Its not right of a parent not to allow a kallah to talk on the phone at night in her own room.

Yeah, it seams like the mother is a control freak.

11 at night is not like 1 am. Or atleast ask the dd nicely to pls not chat that late bec it can wake ppl. Not force it and grab phones away.

It seams like it has become a power struggle. Mom disconnects phones and grabs cell phones. Dd finds new phones and disregards the mothers wishes...it's a 2 way street.
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amother




Yellow


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 4:02 pm
I also had a cellphone before I was married. Our mother never found it and I only used it in the bathroom to text or outside to talk and not late at night when people could be sleeping. Other siblings did not have a phone at all or if they did I was not unaware of it.
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 4:04 pm
amother wrote:
No - if its her responsibility to enforce the rules of the community for members of her household under her roof .... and the leaders say "no pink fuzzy socks".


I agree with this.
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amother




Pewter


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 4:06 pm
amother wrote:
Rules aren't about control - they are about order.

Mom makes the rules.

Its not my or anybody else's place to say what is 'right' or 'wrong' here.

I really don't see this as being controlling.


Mom makes the rules - yes.

Mom expects the rules to be honored - yes.

Mom can demand the rules should be honored - yes.

Mom takes away (and doesn't return) an item of value from her adult child (who's about to be married) - No. This is the part that reeks of control.

*edited for typos
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amother




Purple


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 4:12 pm
Chayalle, your 20 year old daughter never talks on the phone at night past 11??
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cm




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 4:26 pm
By "kallah" do you mean a young woman of marriagable age? Perhaps still under 22 or so? Sorry, I'm not from your type of community, so I want to clarify. That stage of life is a difficult transition for many, being an adult (sort of, but just barely) but still a child under the jurisdiction of parents. It's difficult for the parents, too.

In general, the parents make the rules in the house and the children, even grown children, follow them. It may be time for the mother and daughter in this situation to review the rules and revise them. But this should be done openly. If your mother feels the need to unplug the phone (assuming your mother is generally mature and reasonable), it suggests that your sister's behavior has become intolerable for the other members of the household, and she needs to make some changes. If your mother is emotionally unstable and overreacting to a minor infraction, that's another story. ETA - Mother taking away a phone is a little "off," which makes me wonder if taking stuff from other family members is a learned behavior in this family, or perhaps one or the other character in this story is unusually impulsive.

I grew up not-frum (if it makes a difference), and yes, teenagers and college students like to talk on the phone. We often did so late at night as the rates went down at 11 pm. We made sure to do so in a way that didn't bother our parents, who generally went to sleep by that hour. We used phone extensions far away from the bedrooms and kept our voices down. Some kids (not me) even had their own phone lines, which was a bit of a luxury in those days. That allowed the kids to talk in their own rooms with the door closed, and left the main line free for the parents to make or receive important calls. Perhaps one of these solutions would work for your family - either an extension in a private corner of the house (perhaps her own room) or a separate phone line for her room.

As for your employees' phones - are they yours to give? Are they cell phones? Why do you have their phones at all? Who pays for their use? Whatever the situation, she shouldn't take what isn't hers. That's not ok.

As for your original question, advise your sister to have an honest discussion with your mother about the house rules, and don't give her any more phones. If she wants one, and it sounds as though she is conflicted about this, she can get her own, whether a cell phone or her own land line.
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 5:02 pm
amother wrote:
Mom makes the rules - yes.

Mom expects the rules to be honored - yes.

Mom can demand the rules should be honored - yes.

Mom takes away (and doesn't return) an item of value from her adult child (who's about to be married) - No. This is the part that reeks of control.

*edited for typos


Taking away the phone that didn't belong to the daughter in the first place seems like a fairly natural consequence to breaking the 'no cell phone rule'. I'm not seeing "reeking of control".

The fact that she is about to be married, to me is irrelevant.

Daughter keeps talking on phone loud enough to disturb mother... she should be figuring out ways to avoid getting caught. I sure hope when my dd is a teen I'm not hearing her on the phone after 11pm.
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dancingqueen




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 5:35 pm
amother wrote:
In what universe is one old enough to get married - but can't figure out how to follow house rules (or atleast work around them).

A cell phone “is a want", not a need.


In my world a young adult that age would be off at college staying up til all hours talking to friends. 11 pm is early for most people that age. Not even being allowed to talk to friends at night would be stifling I would think.
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pause




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 5:38 pm
OP, I would tell you to talk to your mother but only if you think your mother is the type to listen to you and consider what you're saying. If she's just going to dig in her heels (typical old-fashioned type of chassidish mother), then don't bother.

But you can tell your sister how to geb zich an eitza. Let her buy her own phone plan and use the phone away from your mother. I would not provide her with another phone simply because your sister needs to learn for herself how to deal with your mother. I can bet you that with her own phone (that she paid for), she'll be more careful that your mother shouldn't get a hold of it.
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pause




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 5:40 pm
In any case, this question would be better understood by other chassidishe posters. OP, if you're not on the Chassidishe Velt sub-forum yet, PM flowerpower.
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 5:55 pm
pause wrote:
But you can tell your sister how to geb zich an eitza. Let her buy her own phone plan and use the phone away from your mother. I would not provide her with another phone simply because your sister needs to learn for herself how to deal with your mother. I can bet you that with her own phone (that she paid for), she'll be more careful that your mother shouldn't get a hold of it.


This is also good advice.
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