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Did you see the State Of The Union Speech?
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amother




Gold


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 7:36 pm
Fox wrote:
This is what you said, Gold. And Vintage agreed with you.

No one is disputing why Democratic Congresswomen wore white. We are disputing whether it was a) smart; and b) in good taste.

To do so within a week after a Democratic governor has made the news by being pictured in blackface or KKK robes in 1984 doesn't make people think of Suffragettes, no matter what the intention. It simply reminds everyone of the Democratic Party's association with the KKK. No one is accusing them of being KKK members or even endorsing KKK ideals (though some obviously do) -- we're just saying that it was a rhetorically bad move.

I mean, I would presume that the Democrats would want avoid reminding everyone of the KKK and Planned Parenthood connections, but like I said, that's up to them.


As I said, (1) the connection between the Democratic Party and the KKK is somewhere between attenuated and mythological; and (2) I don't think anyone with enough brain cells to form a synapse would see any relationship between a group of women wearing white and the KKK.

I guess it gave Republicans the opportunity to go on the offensive and be extremely offensive. Instead of, you know, going for unity and saluting a good message. But that doesn't mean that any thinking person would conflate the two, or even be reminded of the KKK by a group of multi-ethnic women.
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amother




Gold


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 7:39 pm
amother wrote:
fyi history:
Lincoln was a republican
the southerners and the slaveowners were democrats
the northerners were republicans


FYI history. That was more than 150 years ago.
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Amarante




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 7:45 pm
amother wrote:
FYI history. That was more than 150 years ago.


And more than overcome with the specific Southern Strategy adopted by Nixon and the Republican Party in the 1960's.

When LBJ used all his legislative wiles to pass the 1964 Civil Rights Act he knew it would spell the death of the Democratic Party in the South. Until the rise of the Southern Strategy which sent dog whistles to southern whites, the Democratic Party consisted of the Southern Bloc and the urban Italian/Irish/Jewish immigrant vote.

To claim that anyone now associates white with the Klan with the Democratic Party is REALLY a stretch and is probably only seen on the pages of wingnut websites Very Happy
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amother




Gold


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 7:49 pm
Amarante wrote:
And more than overcome with the specific Southern Strategy adopted by Nixon and the Republican Party in the 1960's.

When LBJ used all his legislative wiles to pass the 1964 Civil Rights Act he knew it would spell the death of the Democratic Party in the South. Until the rise of the Southern Strategy which sent dog whistles to southern whites, the Democratic Party consisted of the Southern Bloc and the urban Italian/Irish/Jewish immigrant vote.

To claim that anyone now associates white with the Klan with the Democratic Party is REALLY a stretch and is probably only seen on the pages of wingnut websites Very Happy


Well, those are the people who are saying that the women in white remind them of the KKK, so it makes sense.
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amother




Lavender


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 7:54 pm
amother wrote:
fyi history:
Lincoln was a republican
the southerners and the slaveowners were democrats
the northerners were republicans


That doesn't fit into their narrative.

They have a new narrative - something to do with antisemitism.
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Amarante




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 7:55 pm
amother wrote:
Well, those are the people who are saying that the women in white remind them of the KKK, so it makes sense.


And then seems to get quoted as "fact" by people on this site.

I am just astounded by the level of ignorance since it was specifically noted that the Congressional women wore white to honor the suffragettes by all credible news sources including Fox News.

I thought the reference to the Klan was some kind of jokey reference until a few posts later when it appeared that it was posted as a serious statement of fact. Peace sign


Last edited by Amarante on Wed, Feb 06 2019, 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 7:55 pm
amother wrote:
As I said, (1) the connection between the Democratic Party and the KKK is somewhere between attenuated and mythological; and (2) I don't think anyone with enough brain cells to form a synapse would see any relationship between a group of women wearing white and the KKK.

I guess it gave Republicans the opportunity to go on the offensive and be extremely offensive. Instead of, you know, going for unity and saluting a good message. But that doesn't mean that any thinking person would conflate the two, or even be reminded of the KKK by a group of multi-ethnic women.

Your first argument is simply wrong. The KKK has a very strong history within the Democratic Party, and there is plenty of historical evidence, including photos. That the Party has since repudiated the KKK is great, but don't attempt to rewrite history.

Your second argument, that anyone "with enough brain cells to form a synapse" wouldn't connect the KKK with all-white street wear ordinarily might hold true. But it does not hold true one week after a Democratic governor is pictured in KKK robes, even mockingly.

In fact, showing up under such circumstances in all-white street wear bespeaks a level of arrogance, as if to say, "We believe we are so morally superior that we don't care if this isn't the greatest timing or highlights the regrettable history of our party. We're exempt from those rules." That tone-deafness has been seized upon by black conservatives, who actually find it more objectionable than some idiot medical student in an offensive costume in 1984.

If racist symbolism means something, then it means something for people across the political spectrum. You are correct that Congresswomen wearing all-white street wear shouldn't be taken as an endorsement of the KKK. It should be taken as a sign that they consider themselves too important to consider how things might look, given the circumstances.
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Mevater




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 7:56 pm
amother wrote:
I had no interest in watching Trump speak but I enjoyed Steven Colbert's show afterwards!

Really, Cheiny, what's the purpose of another thread about the president? Enough is enough already!

- a Democrat bas a Democrat and a legal immigrant


To each their own.

Im a Democrat Bas Democrats, and a child of legal immigrants, and Im starting to yawn at Stephen Colbert's repetitive comedy shtick and was spellbound by Trump's beautiful speech.
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Amarante




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 7:58 pm
Fox wrote:


If racist symbolism means something, then it means something for people across the political spectrum. You are correct that Congresswomen wearing all-white street wear shouldn't be taken as an endorsement of the KKK. It should be taken as a sign that they consider themselves too important to consider how things might look, given the circumstances.


Your reasoning makes no sense.

If white is associated with the Klan then brides should forego wearing white as well.

The only imagery that is associated with the Klan are WHITE HOODS not white dresses or white business suits Banging head Banging head
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amother




Lavender


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 8:08 pm
Amarante wrote:
Your reasoning makes no sense.

If white is associated with the Klan then brides should forego wearing white as well.

The only imagery that is associated with the Klan are WHITE HOODS not white dresses or white business suits Banging head Banging head


There is one person in white at a wedding. Here you have a whole crowd dressed in white. It is a different kind of visual.
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 8:08 pm
Amarante wrote:
And more than overcome with the specific Southern Strategy adopted by Nixon and the Republican Party in the 1960's.

When LBJ used all his legislative wiles to pass the 1964 Civil Rights Act he knew it would spell the death of the Democratic Party in the South. Until the rise of the Southern Strategy which sent dog whistles to southern whites, the Democratic Party consisted of the Southern Bloc and the urban Italian/Irish/Jewish immigrant vote.

To claim that anyone now associates white with the Klan with the Democratic Party is REALLY a stretch and is probably only seen on the pages of wingnut websites Very Happy

This is the propaganda that the Democratic Party has spent the last 40 years feeding their voters. It's been debunked repeatedly, most notably by historian Carol Swain. In fact, only a few major "Yellow Dog Democrat" figures actually switched to the Republican Party. The majority of switches in party allegiance correlated to economic changes, not to Nixon's Southern Strategy.

I am certain that most Democrats do consider it a stretch to associate the KKK with the Democratic Party -- largely because the Party works very hard to promote the "official" version in which they are the party of inclusion and diversity -- unless you're Jewish, pro-life, or pro-capitalism.
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Amarante




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 8:11 pm
amother wrote:
There is one person in white at a wedding. Here you have a whole crowd dressed in white. It is a different kind of visual.


Actually not true. Princess Kate had a white attendant as well as all the children in the procession dressed in white.

Anyway I feel like I am arguing with silly putty because this is the first time I have EVER heard anyone associate women wearing white with the Klan.

It is a well known symbol of the suffragette movement and for the past few years has been used specifically by women to show their affiliation with the suffragette movement and by extension woman's rights in general.

I find it astounding that it is now being circulated that this is somehow now associated with the Klan - if it weren't so serious in terms of the wingnut websites attempting to seize the narrative it would be hilarious - but it's really just heart breaking and I stand in awe of the ignorance of American political science.
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 8:14 pm
Amarante wrote:
Your reasoning makes no sense.

If white is associated with the Klan then brides should forego wearing white as well.

The only imagery that is associated with the Klan are WHITE HOODS not white dresses or white business suits Banging head Banging head

You're deliberately avoiding the key variable: timing.

White Suffragette-honoring outfits worn by a group of Democrats 6 months or a year from now would likely be a non-story. A week after a Democratic governor is shown in a mocking rendition of KKK robes? Just tone-deaf.

As I said, usually Republicans are the only ones to approximate such tone-deafness. Apparently the Democrats decided to give them a run for their money.
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 8:20 pm
Amarante wrote:
I find it astounding that it is now being circulated that this is somehow now associated with the Klan - if it weren't so serious in terms of the wingnut websites attempting to seize the narrative it would be hilarious - but it's really just heart breaking and I stand in awe of the ignorance of American political science.

I hate to use the word "lie," but this is such a gross misstatement of the facts that it's hard to find a less offensive synonym.

No one -- absolutely no one -- claims that Democratic Congresswomen are "associated" with the Klan.

Many people, including many POC, are claiming that dressing in all-white within a week of the Governor Northam scandal is obnoxiously tone-deaf.

You may disagree with them, but their opinion is not rooted in ignorance of U.S. history.
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Amarante




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 8:32 pm
Fox wrote:
I hate to use the word "lie," but this is such a gross misstatement of the facts that it's hard to find a less offensive synonym.

No one -- absolutely no one -- claims that Democratic Congresswomen are "associated" with the Klan.

Many people, including many POC, are claiming that dressing in all-white within a week of the Governor Northam scandal is obnoxiously tone-deaf.

You may disagree with them, but their opinion is not rooted in ignorance of U.S. history.


Who are the "many people" who are claiming there is an association with the Klan because the first I have heard of this is from the usual right wing posters on this site which leads me to believe that it is a right wing smoke screen. Because only the usual right wing posters had the energy to post a thread on the SOTU.

It's not that I disagree with the association - it's that no rational person is making that association because white dresses - even en masse - don't carry that association. WHITE HOODS yes.

I could have posted a thread on the magnificent response to the SOUS by Stacey Abrams but why would I have bothered since I don't really have the energy or disposition to be political on this site except when posts reach a level of ridiculousness that I can't ignore such as equating white dresses and business suits with Klan imagery when worn by Democratic Congresswoman.
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amother




Forestgreen


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 8:45 pm
allthingsblue wrote:
I do not think he should step down at all. I believe in justice. If there is no evidence, he should not be punished in any way, not even via public opinion.


Let's see if Vanessa Tyson is mocked and dragged through the mud the way the right wing did to Christine Blasey Ford. The difference will be quite illuminating, I think.

Do you think there was justice in the way CBF was treated?

From a coldly political calculation, there were many eminently qualified judges who could have stepped into Kavanaugh's shoes. In VA there is nobody clearly qualified to take Fairfax's place. But doing the right thing takes precedence over political considerations.

Conservatives made a choice to stick by Kavanaugh and trample his accuser into the dust. What choice will the democratic party make?
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amother




Magenta


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 8:53 pm
amother wrote:
Let's see if Vanessa Tyson is mocked and dragged through the mud the way the right wing did to Christine Blasey Ford. The difference will be quite illuminating, I think.

Do you think there was justice in the way CBF was treated?

From a coldly political calculation, there were many eminently qualified judges who could have stepped into Kavanaugh's shoes. In VA there is nobody clearly qualified to take Fairfax's place. But doing the right thing takes precedence over political considerations.

Conservatives made a choice to stick by Kavanaugh and trample his accuser into the dust. What choice will the democratic party make?


CBF's story was completely unverifiable and even worse, completely unfalsifiable because she couldn't give any details so that corroborative evidence could be gathered. Many details were found to be false, and all those named as witnesses denied being there.

Vanessa Tyson (also a PhD holding college professor, btw) already has more truth to her story simply with the fact that Fairfax admits to being in the hotel room with her on the stated date. The rest of it is a he said/she said, so I wouldn't credit her claims at all unless some corroborating evidence was presented. But I dont put her in the same category as CBF.
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amother




Forestgreen


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 8:58 pm
amother wrote:
CBF's story was completely unverifiable and even worse, completely unfalsifiable because she couldn't give any details so that corroborative evidence could be gathered. Many details were found to be false, and all those named as witnesses denied being there.

Vanessa Tyson (also a PhD holding college professor, btw) already has more truth to her story simply with the fact that Fairfax admits to being in the hotel room with her on the stated date. The rest of it is a he said/she said, so I wouldn't credit her claims at all unless some corroborating evidence was presented. But I dont put her in the same category as CBF.


Very convenient!
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amother




Smokey


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 8:59 pm
I feel ignorant about history and/or politics but why were suffragettes only represented by democrats? Isn’t that women can vote applicable to both parties? It seemed to me it was made into an extension of “me too”. Can you please explain?
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amother




Magenta


Post  Wed, Feb 06 2019, 8:59 pm
Amarante wrote:
Who are the "many people" who are claiming there is an association with the Klan because the first I have heard of this is from the usual right wing posters on this site which leads me to believe that it is a right wing smoke screen. Because only the usual right wing posters had the energy to post a thread on the SOTU.

It's not that I disagree with the association - it's that no rational person is making that association because white dresses - even en masse - don't carry that association. WHITE HOODS yes.

I could have posted a thread on the magnificent response to the SOUS by Stacey Abrams but why would I have bothered since I don't really have the energy or disposition to be political on this site except when posts reach a level of ridiculousness that I can't ignore such as equating white dresses and business suits with Klan imagery when worn by Democratic Congresswoman.


It's all over twitter.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/a.....fp#4ldqpfp
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