Do your kids get dessert if they didn't finish supper?

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:20 am

renslet wrote:

I have no idea, when it's time for the second course, if I see that one of my children didn't eat anything in the first course I'll encourage her to take. When it's time for dessert I usually ask them, did you eat food? Most of the time they don't even answer no, they go back to their plate and serve themselves real food and then come back for dessert.
I can't remember but I probably once said and kept my word that if they didn't eat any food they wouldn't get and now it's just part of the meal.
But again I make food that my kids like, and generally Friday night or Shabbos day meals they are hungry.
If it becomes a power struggle I would either, serve fruit and give regardless or serve the dessert way later so it wasn't connected to the meal.
I do however serve dessert after benching, we found that after dessert, it's really hard for them to bench properly

Definitely. Dessert comes after bentching. Somehow there it doesn't turn into a power struggle. "Did you bentch? Ok, here's dessert. Oh you didn't? So bentch and then I can give you." There are no excuses.
Food is more of an issue because there are so many excuses that might be valid for why they don't eat.

amother

Blue

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:20 am

amother wrote:

You have a different issue. My goal isn't to stuff calories. My goal is to for them to eat healthy foods and to create healthy eating habits.

ok, now that you are being clear...
Withholding dessert unless kids finish their plates will NOT create good eating habits!

keym

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:21 am

amother wrote:

Right. That's the kind of snacks my kids take to school. They refuse to take fruits or other healthy options. School lunches are also not healthy IMO, so when they come home too full or don't like the supper or their stomach hurts, but then want dessert, what would you do?

Honestly, I've never done this. But a therapist I once worked with advised to make a "healthy eating plate" chart. Basically a checklist with 1-2 dairy, 2 protein, 2 healthy starch 2-3 fruits or vegetables (servings considered their age in pinkie nail size bites), and 2 treats a day. As they eat their foods, you fill in their charts. For special occasion, you can add a treat if you add a protein or vegie.
Basically, its about letting the kid take ownership of what they are eating. Some kids will choose to take applesauce or healthier snack to school that day to save for the donut at night.
And filling in a whole chart results in a sticker towards a prize.
Its not a threat. Its realization. Oh, you had chips and cookies for snack today. That was yummy. You filled in your treat boxes. Now, what protein do you want to fill in you protein boxes?

Laiya

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:23 am

amother wrote:

Your kids listen to your logic?

I had one particular child in mind who would not be hungry for the meal, but possibly still ask for dessert. Yes, he's old enough to listen to logic.

But my goal is not really for me to tell him something and then he listens. I want to give him the information he needs to be able to think things through and take responsibility for his own decisions. And we have conversations about healthy eating all the time.

There have for sure been times when he doesn't make the best decisions, and he'll come to me afterward and say, Mommy, I shouldn't have had the cake. And I say, Ok, what does this tell you for next time?

I'd rather he learn to make these decisions for himself, even if sometimes it means he eats cake when he shouldn't have, than have myself as the arbiter of his food intake.

amother

Blue

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:26 am

amother wrote:

Okay, so make it about be nching, not food!!!

If your kids eat at the seudah -SOMETHING - A piece of chicken and broccoli or fish and salad- it is OK to eat dessert!
I do not monitor what my kids est.
Shannon day some eat only challah. It's okay. They get protein and veg at other mrals. They are fine.
They can have fruit as a snack if they are hungry!

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:28 am

keym wrote:

Sounds amazing but making a chart makes food more of an issue instead of less of an issue.

keym

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:30 am

Laiya wrote:

Agree with this. I think many in my generation (born 75-90) were raised with a strong parental control and parental "rationing". My parents being children of survivors were forced to finish their plate. My parents were the just one bite, just one bite, but it was their decisions. I think many of us are more into teaching the kids what food should be going in and them letting them make choices to be hungry (but not giving more and more junk).

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:31 am

Laiya wrote:

Works fine for some kids but other kids will always take the cake, candy, etc. even after stomach aches and multiple visits to the dentist. When the cake or soda is in front of them, logic flies away.

amother

Blue

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:34 am

amother wrote:

So only offer decent portions dessert

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:35 am

keym wrote:

The junk food is all around them. In school where they get breakfast (sugar cereal) and lunch (white pasta) plus nosh for every occasion or achievement be it a siyum, a motivational school program, 33 birthday parties. In shul at the kiddush and from the candy man. At Bubby's. I don't want my house to be the only place without junk so we have junk too to take as snack to school, for Shabbos party, and for dessert on Shabbos and special days.

keym

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:36 am

amother wrote:

Sounds amazing but making a chart makes food more of an issue instead of less of an issue.

I don't know. You are letting them make the choice what and how to eat. And you are allowing them their treats.
Look, if your kid chooses to eat snacks but no supper cuz he's full, that's his choice. But when he kvetches at 7 that he's hungry, he can't choose junk because there's no more left. So he will choose to go to bed hungry, or choose to eat something healthy.

IME, kids over 6 are very interested in nutrition, vitamins, minerals- giving them lots of information helps them make these choices.
Younger than 6 doesn't listen as well to logic, but they have less access to unlimited junk the way its available in some yeshivos.

amother

Babypink

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:38 am

I.think people are drawing arbitrary lines between "real" food and "junk" food. For example, I once saw a mother haranguing her kids at a Kiddush to take (sweet) kugel rather than cake. Doesn't she realise the kugel probably has just as much sugar as cake?

Is cholent necessarily healthier than ice cream?

Of course a lot depends on portion sizes etc. But because the lines are sort of arbitrary I dont see the logic in insisting that you must eat X in order to get Y. If you dont want them eating Y, don't serve it. And if they're refusing to eat X, maybe try serving something else.

Laiya

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:38 am

amother wrote:

You say "always choose". I think it's a process, and if a child never had that autonomy, it could be that at first, he will be so excited to have that freedom that he'll make a series of bad choices.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:40 am

keym wrote:

Same access as the older ones.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:43 am

amother wrote:

I agree with you. I don't understand why someone would say if you eat your pizza you can have ice cream. To me they're both junk maybe one not as bad as the other but still not healthy.
I don't want to eliminate desserts completely. I want to make sure they don't only eat dessert.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:44 am

Laiya wrote:

You say "always choose". I think it's a process, and if a child never had that autonomy, it could be that at first, he will be so excited to have that freedom that he'll make a series of bad choices.

I wonder. I think it's a nature of a kid who doesn't think things through and I can't wait for the kid to grow up to decide to eat healthy.

keym

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:45 am

amother wrote:

How old is this kid? Cuz my kids who are exposed to sugar cereal daily (minyan) and free range kiddushim are over 10. And are fascinated by science, love cholent, meat (healthful in moderation) and love being involved in food prep and tasting.
My "noshy" kid started bringing me home chicken recipes that his friends say are "sick" for me to try- and he'll taste it cuz its not my chicken, its Yossi's mother.
And he started watching the older boys at kiddushim and heating mega portions of cholent, kugel, herring, and crackers.

But it seems like a bigger issue.
At our avos ubanim, they started serving cholent. At class siyums, they started serving cold cuts, rolls, and pickles and boys are encouraged to bring in kugels and salads rather than junk.
Yes, I know cold cuts and kugel aren't "high nutrition" but its something.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:47 am

keym wrote:

Breakfast is served to all kids in school and yeshiva unrelated to minyan.
At our avos ubanim they serve super snacks and lollies. At class siyums it's still nosh/cake.

amother

Babypink

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:55 am

amother wrote:

The issue isn't whether or not they get dessert. The issue is why they're not eating the other stuff. If they literally will eat nothing at the shabbos meal besides dessert, you have to figure out why. Would a kid sit at the table for 2 hours watching everyone eat?

keym

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:56 am

amother wrote:

Breakfast is served to all kids in school and yeshiva unrelated to minyan.
At our avos ubanim they serve super snacks and lollies. At class siyums it's still nosh/cake.

OK. Then I can't relate. By me, breakfast is served only in 6th grade and up. Until then, its my choices. Cheerios, oatmeal, yogurt, toast and eggs. And through preschool (4yr old), I send lunch and a healthy snack. So he eats what I send. Morahs give one nosh like cookies. They're home by 3:30. So I could control what they eat mostly. Except birthdays.
5yr olds get served lunch and snack, but they're still home by 3:30. And 6-8 yr olds by 4:15. So I could give healthy breakfasts and they're hungry enough by supper to eat healthy supper. Even if lunch is junk.

I consider cholent to be healthy because most are served with potatoes, assorted beans, barley, and a little meat or bones for flavor. And school cholent has no meat.
So it may not have vegies, but it does have strong nutritional value.