Do your kids get dessert if they didn't finish supper?

amother

Magenta

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 9:14 pm

QueenBee3 wrote:

Sometimes in my house we eat dessert first! Like ice cream for dinner in the summer time, after we had a big lunch during the day. But this is a rare treat when we go to Carvel ice cream!

Usually we all try our best ( including mom here) to eat the healthy food first and then we enjoy dessert together. No child is given dessert until after they have eaten their dinner. They do not have to clean the plate in order to enjoy dessert.

If they don't have to clean the plate then how do you decide what is considered having eaten?

amother

Magenta

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 9:15 pm

amother wrote:

By the time dessert is served Friday night half my kids are passed out on the couch. Whoever makes it that far is welcome to dessert ( which usually is cut up fruit).

I cant imagine a kid going hungry the entire shabbos meal only to pop up for dessert. My kids like shabbos food. They eat well at the fish and salad course, sometimes skip soup and chicken. Dessert really is an afterthought.

What about Shabbos morning?

amother

Magenta

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 9:17 pm

nchr wrote:

We have a timer. Everyone can eat as much or as little as they please within that time grame. No rules about dessert. It's available to whoever whenever we have it. My MIL doesnt let the children leave the table if they dont finish supper until bedtime when they can go to sleep, which is a bit much IMO.

Interesting. How long do you set the timer for? If they didn't eat throughout the whole time of the timer do they still get dessert? Regardless of the reason they didn't eat, for example, playing, not liking the food, being too full from snack/lunch?

Blue jay

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 9:24 pm

amother wrote:

If they don't have to clean the plate then how do you decide what is considered having eaten?

We usually share our meals together, so I can tell when they are pushing food around on their plate or really eating They should finish at least half of their meal. I really try not to force feed. Eat until satisfied. If they don’t like the dinner they at least have a few good bites to try, but if they don’t like the meal then they can have a sandwich ( rarely happens, as they like my cooking 🙂👍🏻)

renslet

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 9:26 pm

Breakfast is bread and cheese, I have a few different types of bread, loaves, small rolls, French bread rolls. And they usually put it in the sandwich maker or toast it. On special days , Rosh chodesh, birthday etc when they have that they can have sugar cereal.
Shabbos they have sugar cereal and then around 10, fruit or sometimes cholent.

During the week I try to have dinner that everyone likes, I do sometimes make two types of rice cuz two kids like one type and two kids like the other type. I sometimes use juice as dessert, sometimes ices, although when it's really hot I give ices when they come off the bus so they can cool off and relax before eating.
I once said that they had to eat two meatballs to get an ices, two of them forced themselves to eat and received and the other two didn't. So now they know that I'm not just saying it. That said, I haven't made meatballs since cuz obviously no one likes them anymore.

Shabbos, they need to eat some good to get dessert, either first or second course. Half the time the younger ones fall asleep before dessert and I give it to them the next day.
I've had kids refuse to eat anything at the seuda and they didn't get dessert. It's not a punishment, more like a logical next step in the meal.

Shabbos party is always given regardless if they ate at the meal so they always have some Nash on Shabbos.

I don't really make an issue about it, dessert is step two, if they haven't passed step one they aren't there yet.

But you have to look out if they really don't like something I would never force

amother

Magenta

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 9:31 pm

renslet wrote:

But you'd give them dessert anyway?

amother

Pumpkin

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 9:38 pm

amother wrote:

Can you explain?
What would you do if the kid didn't eat real food because
-they're too full
-they don't like it
-their stomach hurts
-they eat slowly and see other kids have dessert already so they rather want that

"They're too full" - My kids are always hungry when they get home from school. I don't have a specific amount that they have to eat. Sometimes they eat more and sometimes less but they never seem to stop eating just because they would rather have dessert. So this doesn't really come up for me. I guess if I had a kid who was consistently "too full" and I got the impression it was just because he/she wanted dessert I would say he/she had to wait until hungry, eat some real food, and then can have dessert.

"They don't like it" - I would offer an option that they do like - mac and cheese, frozen pizza, etc., or even cereal.

"They're stomach hurts" - I would offer a different food option (see above) in case "my stomach hurts" is really a code for "I don't like/want this food now." If they still didn't eat I wouldn't give dessert because that would likely be bad for a stomachache.

"They eat slowly and want dessert because the other kids already have" - I think I would wait until everyone finishes to give dessert. My kids are usually full after they eat dinner and would rather take a bit of a break before having a dessert (if there is one). If I was giving dessert right away and one kid was not finishing the meal and trying to move on to dessert I think it would depend how much he or she ate compared to their usual eating habits. If they took two bites when usually they eat much more I would not give dessert unless he or she eats some more. If they ate most of their food and it is comparable to their usual amount, even if a little less, I would give dessert.

amother

Burlywood

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 9:51 pm

There is no concept of "good" foods and "dessert" foods in our home. We do eat vegan though so there are lots of absent foods, but otherwise we try to follow intuitive eating concepts. BTW, if my kids go to family or neighbors who are not vegan, they probably do eat meat, fish, eggs, etc. but I don't serve it in our house (except for Shabbos because my husband believes it is assur not to although I don't eat it).

Essentially, most meals are self serve, buffet style with a variety of different food groups and everyone takes what they want and there are no comments. We do not allow playing during dinner and we expect respectful behavior, including no getting up without asking permission to be excused; however, eating is not required and we don't have an issue if they choose to forgo a meal here and there, which rarely happens because eating is very structures and just a part of a routine here. Dessert is also self serve usually and available buffet style too, but not very lavish. Statistically it has been shown that when given options, children will, overall, choose healthy foods from every category so while one day they may just want apples or another just potatoes, over a period of time, they will make balanced choices.

Breakfast and lunch timers are 30 minutes and the dinner timer is one hour because there are more options and we believe it should take longer to eat. Once the time goes off, the meal is over and we go on to do what we need to. If a kid is really hungry and still eating, we'll let them finish because that is just reasonable. I'm also a super slow eater so have to be understanding in that area lol.

Last edited by amother on Mon, Nov 30 2020, 8:31 pm; edited 2 times in total

keym

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 9:51 pm

In general, during the week, the rule is after supper the only food available is fruits, vegies, and whole wheat matza.
On Shabbos, I put each child's dessert on a plate. It's theirs and not going away if they eat some real food. Their age in bites of protein and vegies. I have some picky eaters and sensory eaters and I make sure to prepare protein and vegies that I know they like even if I have to make several different options.
As to eating at kiddush, they wake up starving so I give them cereal and milk, yogurt, and fruit. So if they go to a kiddush, they have nutrition in them.

renslet

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 9:52 pm

amother wrote:

But you'd give them dessert anyway?

Depends, one of my kids hates cholent, so I don't push it. He eats shnitzel, coldcuts, dish, challa and dips. For everyone else, the rule is that they have to eat cholent.
If they have always eaten something and suddenly refuse, I would try to find out why, but, no I wouldn't give dessert if they haven't eaten anything that meal. But Shabbos meals have loads of options, I've never had a kid who didn't like anything.
During the week I watch and if they don't like something, I try not to make it again

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:16 pm

Dessert is not dependent on what has been eaten in my house. I have one toddler. Honestly when we don't have guests for meals he'll often ask for his desert after the fish course and I just give it to him then (it makes him happy and it really doesn't matter to me or my husband). He still eats his main course afterwards. I find he actually eats better when it's served that way. Otherwise he's just waiting the whole meal for desert already.

But even if he didn't eat much I'd still give it to him. Desert is portioned out for him and we don't serve a ton of it. I don't see the point of using it as a bribe or punishment for eating anything else. Then it turns into some big argument/power struggle thing.

amother

Blue

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 10:56 pm

I also only have dessert on shabbos, and only sometimes.
My daughter thinks we are the only people n the world like that.

Friday night we often have apple kugel during main course, which in my opinion is like dessert, but we don't call it that. We just "don't have dessert." My husband feels it is unnecessary, and we are full.

Shabbos day we have shabbos party a few hours after the seudah, which is ice cream or cake. That's basically dessert much late in the day.

I absolutely never link eating meal to dessert.
We do sometimes link behavior to it.

The only other time we have dessert is birthdays- I make a cake for each child's birthday. Again, nothing to do with eating at all. It is lekovod birthday.

amother

Babypink

Wed, Feb 06 2019, 11:34 pm

amother wrote:

I'd love if you could be helpful in answering my questions. I'm trying to figure things out here. Otherwise, I don't appreciate underhanded subtle implications or accusations.

I don't think the tone is meant to be sarcastic or nasty. People just have very different approaches to food and eating. One approach is you plan the meals, you serve healthy food, you put it out there and everyone eats as much or as little as they want. If you decide to serve dessert, either make it healthy or serve a reasonable portion size. But you don't make an issue out of it that you have to "earn" your dessert by eating a certain amount or behaving a certain way.

People who have a less controlling attitude about what their kids eat find it honestly dismaying to spend so much time thinking and planning who gets to have dessert and who doesn't.

sky

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:28 am

Dessert is mainly on Shabbos.

On Shabbos you have to eat something normal - whatever and how much. I don’t keep track. When the course is over I clear all plates even if there is still food on it if the person says they are done. Everyone ends up with dessert

Both my parents are children of holocaust survivors and I think were traumatized by having to eat a lot and clear their plate. We had no requirements growing up and I do the same.

I see some parents have wars at the Shabbos table over food (you have to eat this food or this much) and I always feel it becomes a power struggle and ruins the Shabbos atmosphere. .

With younger kids I also like to use the when..then approach. Like DH bought donuts for Rosh Chodesh. You have to eat something/anything for breakfast first. Now it’s “ when you eat something for breakfast then you get your donut. “ (not if...then). If I see it I’d becoming a struggle I try to just work it out in their favor.

seeker

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:54 am

They don't have to finish the food, but they have to at least sample it. Nobody's going straight to dessert. Also, nobody gets dessert until everybody is ready, including me. You linger over the meal long enough so there's ample opportunity for real food eating.

They also have to be satisfied from food. I want them to decide when they are satisfied. We talk about listening to your tummy (actually now that I'm saying it, in those words, we probably haven't talked about it much since they were in preschool!) Dessert is always one portion, so they know by now that if they say they're satisfied just so they can get dessert, they will end up hungry.

Which is not to say that I never say tender motherly things like "but you didn't have any protein!" Just that there's no rule about finishing food before dessert.

Dessert is usually fruit on weekdays and mezonos (with fruit) on Shabbos/yom tov, but sometimes I'll throw in a random treat like ice cream or chocolate chips just because.