Do your kids get dessert if they didn't finish supper?

Teomima

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 7:31 am

amother wrote:

I'm trying to understand. If a kid would say "I don't like anything here" and not eat at all, you would have no problem giving them dessert? If they kid only eat (white) challa, do they then get dessert?

I don't think I've ever encountered a meal where any of my kids have refused to eat anything at all. Obviously if it's at my own table I try to make sure there's something they'd like and even if we're elsewhere, and even if it's not served, I can offer my kids something from the host's kitchen like a carrot or an apple, just so they eat something real. But I never say, "eat this or you don't get dessert." I don't want them to make good food choices just for the sake of getting junk, rather so they feed their bodies something nutritious.

amother

Gold

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 7:41 am

amother wrote:

How do you determine what is considered a decent amount? Do they know how much is considered to you to be a decent amount or do they have to check in with you if they ate enough to qualify for moving on to the next course aka dessert?
What if a kid eats very slowly and is not up to dessert when the others are? Do you wait for everyone to finish before serving dessert? Or do you tell that kid he can only have dessert when he finishes eating? What if he's already too full (or lazy or too excited for dessert) to finish eating?

My kids are quite young, and I know what's considered normal for then. But also, I can tell them before a shabbos meal, for example, to choose one thing that they're going to finish. Can be either fish, eggs, or cholent, and I serve them portions appropriately sized for their age/ typical eating habits.

Laiya

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 9:02 am

OP, short answer is, I try to never have power struggles over food.

But I think how you deal with it also depends on why is dc not eating? If he's not hungry, I would try to discuss with him that eating cake when he had no appetite for real food, will probably give him a tummy ache. But whether he eats the cake will be his decision.

Is he picky, and doesn't like anything being served? Then that's a long term issue that needs to be addressed, but I would deal with it separate from dessert. And, dealing with it should be done prior to shabbos, so that he has an opportunity to eat something he's ok with during the meal.

Laiya

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 9:24 am

I have a friend who gives her kids a sweet nosh, like ice cream, right before supper. She feels it helps stimulate their appetites and encourages them to come to the table. Then, they eat a good, healthy supper. Her kids are all tall and built of solid muscle.

This would NEVER work in my house. But every family is different, everyone's genetics are different, and sometimes we need to think outside the box.

Chayalle

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 9:31 am

Laiya wrote:

My petite kids would be full on the icecream or nosh, and they would then have no appetite for anything. They could just live on jellybeans! But if that works for your friend, great.

When my kids were little, it wasn't about a power struggle if they finish their chulent or not - it was more about not stuffing them up with junk before they ate something healthy. After lunch, everyone who ate nicely (IOW tasted a bit of potato or salad, at the very least) got Shabbos party.....at this point, my kids are B"H big enough to police themselves, and they are generally hungry anyway....my 10 year old could happily live on snacks, but she knows to eat at mealtimes, at least a little.

Dr. Shanik of Lakewood (my kids' pediatrician) has a tape system full of healthy advice for parents that runs whenever you are on hold...and I can hear this in my head, I must've heard it a hundred times "Don't waste small appetites on sweets".

amother

Yellow

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 9:33 am

I have some kids with weight gain issues and very picky eaters. We've worked with nutritionists, etc in the past. Bottom line, they need the calories. They may only eat a few bites of supper or a yogurt instead. I feel like that is not enough calories for their age, so I'm happy if they take a snack after. At least it's calories.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 10:02 am

amother wrote:

You have a different issue. My goal isn't to stuff calories. My goal is to for them to eat healthy foods and to create healthy eating habits.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 10:03 am

Laiya wrote:

Your kids listen to your logic?

Chayalle

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 10:04 am

amother wrote:

I've had such - pizza bagels, cheese sticks, and even ice cream etc...will give your kids much richer calories and better weight gain. Try to include some calcium with the calories, it goes a much longer way...

Teomima

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 10:10 am

amother wrote:

You have a different issue. My goal isn't to stuff calories. My goal is to for them to eat healthy foods and to create healthy eating habits.

I'm confused. If those are your goals than why are you asking about dessert? Just stop serving desserts (other than say nuts and fresh fruit) and instead focus your meals on the healthy foods you want to feed them. Bribing children with junk food in order to get them to eat healthy is NOT creating "healthy eating habits."

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 10:12 am

Teomima wrote:

I already mentioned we had dessert yesterday in honor of Rosh chodesh. We also have dessert Shabbos.

keym

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 10:25 am

OP it seems your kids are quite young.
So I'll tell you what my pediatrician says. Its not about daily nutrition but weekly nutrition. So if my kid eats one day carrot sticks and baked potato, the next day chicken, and the next day lettuce and cottage cheese, then we are doing great.
Also, for special treats during the week, I don't serve dessert. Instead I might say, I bought donuts for Rosh Chodesh that we can have after we eat supper, do homework and clean up the toys. Most kids won't hold out for the donut because they're hungry now- so they'll taste what's there.
Getting my kids involved in food prep really helps them eat. My 4 yr old will only eat the cholent if I let him throw the potatoes in the pot. So fine, he helps.
And lastly, most kids who aren't hungry are eating small amounts during the day. If my kids refuse supper but I know they ate string cheese, apples, and Melba toast earlier, its fine. The problem is the kid who had pretzels, chips, and chocolate for snack and then refuses supper.

mommyla

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 10:25 am

Chayalle wrote:

Dr. Shanik of Lakewood (my kids' pediatrician) has a tape system full of healthy advice for parents that runs whenever you are on hold...and I can hear this in my head, I must've heard it a hundred times "Don't waste small appetites on sweets".

I can just hear it now. "Healthy eating habits should be established from the time your child begins to eat food."

My kids do not get Shabbos party or dessert if they don't eat something relatively normal. We don't have dessert on weekdays (if I just baked something fresh, they may be able to have a cookie or a piece of cake or whatever if they eat nicely). We explain it as "you will feel sick and have a hard time behaving nicely if you have sugary treats without having something healthy in your stomach."

Same goes for Purim, btw - everyone must have a good breakfast and we bring along healthy snacks in the car when delivering MM (G-d bless those people who give us veggie platters, we demolish them along our route!), otherwise we wind up with very cranky, nauseous kids who can't even enjoy the day.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:05 am

keym wrote:

Right. That's the kind of snacks my kids take to school. They refuse to take fruits or other healthy options. School lunches are also not healthy IMO, so when they come home too full or don't like the supper or their stomach hurts, but then want dessert, what would you do?

renslet

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:05 am

As a teacher and a day camp director, I think it's important that kids have opportunities to get Nash at home. I've seen way too many kids steal, beg, stuff themselves when no one is looking or allow themselves to be bullied just to get some junk.
I think if kids know that Shabbos is associated with tasty , good, food it gives a good feeling. It's not just about the dessert. I know I said that my kids have to eat to get dessert but it's never been a power struggle. It's like the rule that if you nap on Friday , then you can go to shul.
And there has to always be exceptions, Purim, after a healthy breakfast I let everyone eat whatever they wanted. Our seuda was lunchtime and then until bedtime they enjoyed.
When they went to sleep I put it all away, it's one day.
I can't tell you how many people that I've met living on shlichus have their Jewish memories tied up with chicken soup, knaidelach and gefilta fish. Culinary memories are real!

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:06 am

mommyla wrote:

How do you determine what/how much is considered normal?

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:08 am

renslet wrote:

How do you make sure the "You need to eat to have dessert" doesn't turn into "You want dessert? You need to eat."

renslet

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:17 am

amother wrote:

How do you make sure the "You need to eat to have dessert" doesn't turn into "You want dessert? You need to eat."

I have no idea, when it's time for the second course, if I see that one of my children didn't eat anything in the first course I'll encourage her to take. When it's time for dessert I usually ask them, did you eat food? Most of the time they don't even answer no, they go back to their plate and serve themselves real food and then come back for dessert.
I can't remember but I probably once said and kept my word that if they didn't eat any food they wouldn't get and now it's just part of the meal.
But again I make food that my kids like, and generally Friday night or Shabbos day meals they are hungry.
If it becomes a power struggle I would either, serve fruit and give regardless or serve the dessert way later so it wasn't connected to the meal.
I do however serve dessert after benching, we found that after dessert, it's really hard for them to bench properly