Home

I you received a GMACH loan, how much did you pay monthly?
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Household Management -> Finances

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


amother




Ecru


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 10:43 pm
amother wrote:
I'm sure it still comes out quite the savings.


Savings?

What was borrowed less what was repaid less tax, does not equal savings.
Back to top

amother




Gold


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:55 pm
amother wrote:
Savings?

What was borrowed less what was repaid less tax, does not equal savings.

Huh?
If settling debt even with the tax would not come out total less money than not settling, then what's the point in settling?
Back to top

amother




Ecru


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 12:28 am
amother wrote:
Huh?
If settling debt even with the tax would not come out total less money than not settling, then what's the point in settling?


I'm just questioning your choice of word 'savings'.

Yes returning 100K borrowed is more 'out of pocket' then paying tax on 100K not returned. Its still wrong to have taken something and not returned it. Savings doesn't enter the picture.

paying tax on the Cancellation Of Debt income comes as a surprise when you think you're in the clear and don't "owe" anymore with respect to the loan.
Back to top

mandksima




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 1:17 am
amother wrote:
the way gemachim work for most people is like a bank. You put in your money , which they lend to people who need, and you can take back out your money when you need it, because people are constantly paying back on previous loans and depositing more money.


I never heard of this. I only thought people put their tzedakah and maaser money in it therefore no one would be personally harmed from it as they couldn't use the money elsewhere anyway. The gemach would be finished if everyone didn't return but there should always be new people putting in their tzedakah/maaser. I believe halachically you can even make your own gemach from your own maaser and borrow from it for certain expenses that are allowed and pay back. It requires careful keeping track of monies but it can work and there would be no limit for you and no guarantors needed. I'm not sure if one would be required to make it a public gemach but it is worth inquiring about for future events.
Back to top

amother




Orange


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 1:54 am
amother wrote:
Thanks. Now I get a ballpark figure of what it is and I can sit down with my DH and of course judge if we can take it or not. Also by your answer I learnt that in case they ask for lets say, 500 monthly I can propose a much lower payment. I want to be treated like the average kehila borrowers.


OY!!
Back to top

amother




Hotpink


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 2:33 am
mandksima wrote:
I never heard of this. I only thought people put their tzedakah and maaser money in it therefore no one would be personally harmed from it as they couldn't use the money elsewhere anyway. The gemach would be finished if everyone didn't return but there should always be new people putting in their tzedakah/maaser. I believe halachically you can even make your own gemach from your own maaser and borrow from it for certain expenses that are allowed and pay back. It requires careful keeping track of monies but it can work and there would be no limit for you and no guarantors needed. I'm not sure if one would be required to make it a public gemach but it is worth inquiring about for future events.


We do both of these things. When we separate maaser, we do it the way the Chofetz Chaim suggests. We actually separate 2*1/10, 1/5 or choimesh. Then we give 2/3 of that to tzedakkah and 1/3 to my husband's gemach. That gemach he gives from fairly freely. It was basically our maaser money. But when I agreed to this arrangement, it was partly because he said we could always borrow from it, too, if we need to in the future.

Our regular money we've saved he then lends to other more established gemachs in the area. I asked why he doesn't put it in his, and he said because he doesn't trust his. He does call people to remind them to pay back, but does not pressure anyone or get cosigners.

But now I am getting nervous. If these established gemachs close, people who lent money just lose it? (We're in Israel- could it be different here??)
Back to top

amother




Babyblue


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 7:10 am
amother wrote:
OY!!

Well the kehila lends gladly if you have 1 or 2 good locals that cosign. And now we are tight but we will be less tight when we finish marry off kids. (Chasidish). Its still "Oy" but its a huge help. Also bederech hateva wages tend to go up a bit. Plus Im cutting on car service and take out. So hopefully 200 or 300 a month to the Gmach will pass well. By the next wedding we will think again. All I feel to say is MI KEAMCHA YISRAEL that lend and help so we can marry off our kids early and not wait till everyone is financially stable. (I cant wait for the new chasidish takonos; the list of things expected is huge - we spend less on the wedding night than litvish people but overspend with home furnishings and sheva brochos)
Back to top

amother




Gold


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 7:40 am
amother wrote:
I'm just questioning your choice of word 'savings'.

Yes returning 100K borrowed is more 'out of pocket' then paying tax on 100K not returned. Its still wrong to have taken something and not returned it. Savings doesn't enter the picture.

paying tax on the Cancellation Of Debt income comes as a surprise when you think you're in the clear and don't "owe" anymore with respect to the loan.

I was referring to the person who does this whole shtick intentionally as a means of generating income. For those people, they think of the savings, I.e. I get to have things beyond my means because I'm going to end up paying much less than the value of these things.
Back to top

amother




Gold


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 7:42 am
amother wrote:
We do both of these things. When we separate maaser, we do it the way the Chofetz Chaim suggests. We actually separate 2*1/10, 1/5 or choimesh. Then we give 2/3 of that to tzedakkah and 1/3 to my husband's gemach. That gemach he gives from fairly freely. It was basically our maaser money. But when I agreed to this arrangement, it was partly because he said we could always borrow from it, too, if we need to in the future.

Our regular money we've saved he then lends to other more established gemachs in the area. I asked why he doesn't put it in his, and he said because he doesn't trust his. He does call people to remind them to pay back, but does not pressure anyone or get cosigners.

But now I am getting nervous. If these established gemachs close, people who lent money just lose it? (We're in Israel- could it be different here??)

I'm sorry to say this but yes. If a gemach closes usually the money is simply gone. We are hoping to still recoup something but I doubt my relative will get back even 1/10 of the money they put in.
Back to top

amother




Gold


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 7:50 am
amother wrote:
Well the kehila lends gladly if you have 1 or 2 good locals that cosign. And now we are tight but we will be less tight when we finish marry off kids. (Chasidish). Its still "Oy" but its a huge help. Also bederech hateva wages tend to go up a bit. Plus Im cutting on car service and take out. So hopefully 200 or 300 a month to the Gmach will pass well. By the next wedding we will think again. All I feel to say is MI KEAMCHA YISRAEL that lend and help so we can marry off our kids early and not wait till everyone is financially stable. (I cant wait for the new chasidish takonos; the list of things expected is huge - we spend less on the wedding night than litvish people but overspend with home furnishings and sheva brochos)

I don't know how many kids you have, but most people are not less tight when they finish marrying off. At that point most people are entering retirement and have other life expenses that come up such as medical. Again, wages don't typically go up disproportionately to expenses, which means that if you/DH get raised, the cost to marry off your child will have increased even more!

It's great that you're cutting on car service but that won't give you 2-300/month. If it will, you should have been cutting that car service for the last 10 years and you'd have enough money to marry off your child(ren) without borrowing from the gemach. I'm assuming you couldn't cut the car service for the last 10 years, how do you think you will be able to do that for the next 10 years?

You don't need to wait for takanos. You can make up your own mind and teach your child too that we buy what we can afford and if we don't have money for fancy sheva bruches outfits, we will not buy so many. If we can't afford it, we will buy only 2 sheitlach and only 2 sets of linen and the cheapest furniture (ch"v, I won't tell you that a newlywed does not need dining room furniture and most ppl my age sold their bedroom furniture when they moved). Be your own person and work with your circumstances.
Back to top

amother




Aqua


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 8:36 am
amother wrote:
Thanks. Now I get a ballpark figure of what it is and I can sit down with my DH and of course judge if we can take it or not. Also by your answer I learnt that in case they ask for lets say, 500 monthly I can propose a much lower payment. I want to be treated like the average kehila borrowers.


OP, the Gemach that I'm familiar with also does not give more than 5000.00 per loan, however, the minimum monthly payment is 250.00. That's the absolute minimum but lots of people pay 300-500 per month. So it might not be an option for you to go lower than 250. 00. It all has to do with an individual Gemach and their rules.
And to another poster above who said that Gemachs give loans to "everybody" that is really not true. At least not our Gemach. Our Gemach gives only to people who the admin knows personally, or in the very least knows two of the four co-signers personally and their background. That being said, even with screening each applicant, there are still a few loans here and there that fall through the system and fail to pay. That is when they go to bais din.... Once they get a letter from bais din most (or should I say all) end up finding a way to pay back. That's a last resort though.
Back to top

amother




Maroon


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 8:43 am
I suggest you keep in mind how old your next child is and how long it will take you to pay back what you borrowed at the rate that you would like to pay it back. For eg. if it will take you 7 years to pay back and your next child is two years younger what are you going to do when you still have to pay back this loan and now have another wedding to pay for as well?
Back to top

dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 12:52 pm
I think people that never took car services & takeout, before marrying off when theyre busy running around town to get everything ready for wedding/shopping/appts/ setting up house, end up using more car services & takeout than they ever did in their life, especially if you are marrying off a daughter.
Back to top

Amarante




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 4:44 pm
The amount owed in taxes for forgiven loans for most people is not that significant.

It became significant during the housing meltdown because people were walking away from hundreds of thousands of dollars in unpaid mortgage amounts so the taxes could exceed a person’s annual income. It was so bad that there was a short term amendment to the tax laws which didn’t require taxes to be paid in the event of a short sale or foreclosure of a principal residence during that period.
Back to top

Studious




 
 
 


Post  Sat, Feb 09 2019, 1:14 pm
There is a bill in Israel which intends to regulate the gmachim. The bill reflects ongoing concern regarding money laundering and the government being pushed to bail out failing gmachim. If the bill is passed into law, gmachim will be subject to the Regulator of the Provident Funds. It’s interesting to think how the law will change the functioning of this institution.
Back to top

dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Sat, Feb 09 2019, 8:20 pm
When tax on settlement of loan does matter is let's say, the amount considered now as income throws you into next tax bracket & you end up paying higher tax on all your income or if you were expecting to get a refund but instead of a refund you need to pay more tax now.
Back to top

amother




Ecru


Post  Sat, Feb 09 2019, 8:27 pm
dankbar wrote:
When tax on settlement of loan does matter is let's say, the amount considered now as income throws you into next tax bracket & you end up paying higher tax on all your income or if you were expecting to get a refund but instead of a refund you need to pay more tax now.


Thats not how tax brackets work.
Back to top
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 Recent Topics

Page 4 of 4 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Household Management -> Finances

Related Topics Replies Last Post
S/o how did you pay for the weddings you made
by amother
2 Yesterday at 8:38 pm View last post
Pay cleaning lady for one session I'm canceling?
by amother
31 Sun, Feb 17 2019, 4:35 pm View last post
Babysitter. Do you pay travel time?
by amother
11 Fri, Feb 15 2019, 7:21 am View last post
NYC-How much do EI agencies pay per SI session?
by amother
7 Mon, Feb 11 2019, 11:55 am View last post
How much to pay 12th grader for Shabbos babysitting?
by amother
21 Mon, Feb 11 2019, 1:12 am View last post

Jump to: