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Talking to teenagers about relations
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amother




Cyan


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 10:05 pm
Ds is 14. My husband and I are pretty sure he knows more or less what relations are about. My husband is reluctant to talk to him about it because he feels there's no upside to the conversation. I want this conversation to happen. I'd like to hear from those that had "the talk" as teenagers, as well as those that didn't and to explain their perspective on why they feel they are better off for having it explained, worse off for not having it explained, or really made no difference. Thank you.
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Optione




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 10:22 pm
Start by asking him what he knows. Take it from there
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amother




Bronze


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 10:37 pm
What for? It will not enhance his life at all. Not neccessary to explain or give any information of married life to a teenager, especially boys. Your husband is absolutely right, there's no point in bringing up this topic.
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essie14




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 12:41 am
I found this book to be helpful

Talking About Intimacy and S-xuality: A Guide for Orthodox Jewish Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1602.....3M1Y5
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sequoia




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 1:22 am
You know he could google it, right?
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 1:31 am
amother wrote:
What for? It will not enhance his life at all. Not neccessary to explain or give any information of married life to a teenager, especially boys. Your husband is absolutely right, there's no point in bringing up this topic.


see thread on children being s-xually abused an not understanding what was happening to them.
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malki2




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 1:53 am
amother wrote:
Ds is 14. My husband and I are pretty sure he knows more or less what relations are about. My husband is reluctant to talk to him about it because he feels there's no upside to the conversation. I want this conversation to happen. I'd like to hear from those that had "the talk" as teenagers, as well as those that didn't and to explain their perspective on why they feel they are better off for having it explained, worse off for not having it explained, or really made no difference. Thank you.


Rav Volbe said in the Sefer Zeria Ubinyan Bechinuch that the Chofetz Chaim ZTL would give his sons the “talk” when they were 14. My husband’s rebbi told him that now the age is 11 or even earlier. Why should they find out about these very important matters from their friends on the street where they will likely be given incorrect information? Shouldn’t the full talk be given by your husband so they have a Toradike understanding? Of course it’s very uncomfortable, but it’s also very important for your boys. . .Unless you are from the chasidishe circles like my cousin’s husband who was completely clueless until two nights before his Chasunah. . .
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 4:48 am
We had absolutely contradictory advise to above. 11 or above??? frum kids??? seriously??? Reaaaaaally not in my experience and we aren't "sheltered" as in Mea Shearim by far... YOu have a world between clueless before marriage and a little child (11!). In the Chofetz Chaim times a boy might well be engaged at 14 - certainly 16. I'm still looking for a good book for puberty without relations like wonder of becoming you for them ftr. Now that would be a mitzva.
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sequoia




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 5:10 am
Ugh Ruchel gross
No one in Europe was engaged at 14
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 5:15 am
Ugh Sequoia gross
Yes obviously it was a thing, my own great grandfather was married at 15
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essie14




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 5:28 am
Ruchel wrote:
Ugh Sequoia gross
Yes obviously it was a thing, my own great grandfather was married at 15

That is irrelevant. No 15 year old is getting engaged nowadays.
That doesn't mean teenagers don't need to know about intimacy. They do, and if parents want their children to have the proper hashkafot regarding marital intimacy the parents need to start educating their children when the children are teens.
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amother




Seashell


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 5:42 am
There is no way to properly address puberty without addressing relations.

Because, you see, part of puberty is that the desire for the opposite gender kicks in. Now you could conveniently pretend that it doesn't exist, but you aren't fooling anyone.

Girls need to know that that giggly excitement they have when they flirt (without knowing what flirting is) with the neighbor's son is an expression of the innate desire Hashem gave us to get married. And that the period they suffer through is preparation for having children, which involves another partner. That the process of procreation is holy.

For a boy we have issues like Zera Levatala. A boy needs to know that the Zera is special and good and will be used in the context of marriage. He needs to know that the pleasure he may have already figured out for himself is something he will enjoy in a Torah-sanctioned way. He needs to know that the googly-eyes over the girls passing by are a natural outcome of his desire for relations which is how Hashem set us up, so we will want to get married.

I educate my kids a lot younger than 14, although we don't do "the talk". These topics come up naturally and I try to answer in a way of kedusha.

Trust me, however awful it is for them to find out "early" it is a lot worse for them to find out wrong attitudes first from other sources. VERY difficult to undo that damage.
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DVOM




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 6:14 am
amother wrote:
There is no way to properly address puberty without addressing relations.

Because, you see, part of puberty is that the desire for the opposite gender kicks in. Now you could conveniently pretend that it doesn't exist, but you aren't fooling anyone.

Girls need to know that that giggly excitement they have when they flirt (without knowing what flirting is) with the neighbor's son is an expression of the innate desire Hashem gave us to get married. And that the period they suffer through is preparation for having children, which involves another partner. That the process of procreation is holy.

For a boy we have issues like Zera Levatala. A boy needs to know that the Zera is special and good and will be used in the context of marriage. He needs to know that the pleasure he may have already figured out for himself is something he will enjoy in a Torah-sanctioned way. He needs to know that the googly-eyes over the girls passing by are a natural outcome of his desire for relations which is how Hashem set us up, so we will want to get married.

I educate my kids a lot younger than 14, although we don't do "the talk". These topics come up naturally and I try to answer in a way of kedusha.

Trust me, however awful it is for them to find out "early" it is a lot worse for them to find out wrong attitudes first from other sources. VERY difficult to undo that damage.


Seashell, this was really beautifully expressed. Thank you for posting. You've obviously given these 'messages' that you'd like to impart to your kids a lot of thought. My husband and I have just started thinking about and discussing how we would like to present puberty and se-xuality to our boys. My oldest is 10...It's a topic that makes me a little nervous. I would have no problem presenting the beauty, power, and spirituality of emerging s-xuality to a girl, but I have no idea how to have these discussions with a boy, and g-d has given me 4 boys. I'm not even sure if I should be part of these discussions. Do you discuss se-xuality with your boys?
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essie14




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 6:28 am
amother wrote:
There is no way to properly address puberty without addressing relations.

Because, you see, part of puberty is that the desire for the opposite gender kicks in. Now you could conveniently pretend that it doesn't exist, but you aren't fooling anyone.

Girls need to know that that giggly excitement they have when they flirt (without knowing what flirting is) with the neighbor's son is an expression of the innate desire Hashem gave us to get married. And that the period they suffer through is preparation for having children, which involves another partner. That the process of procreation is holy.

For a boy we have issues like Zera Levatala. A boy needs to know that the Zera is special and good and will be used in the context of marriage. He needs to know that the pleasure he may have already figured out for himself is something he will enjoy in a Torah-sanctioned way. He needs to know that the googly-eyes over the girls passing by are a natural outcome of his desire for relations which is how Hashem set us up, so we will want to get married.

I educate my kids a lot younger than 14, although we don't do "the talk". These topics come up naturally and I try to answer in a way of kedusha.

Trust me, however awful it is for them to find out "early" it is a lot worse for them to find out wrong attitudes first from other sources. VERY difficult to undo that damage.

This should be a pinned post on this site. You said this so beautifully.
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 6:53 am
essie14 wrote:
That is irrelevant. No 15 year old is getting engaged nowadays.
That doesn't mean teenagers don't need to know about intimacy.


No, THAT is irrelevant (see how nice)

Teen ranges from 13 to 19
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 6:55 am
I plan to do the girls and my husband the boys. I'd never have wanted to hear from my dad and my husband cannot imagine his mom talking.
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amother




Cobalt


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 7:00 am
I don’t have any teenagers yet but don’t boys learn about it in Gemara?
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 7:12 am
Some passages are definitely skipped over - even in kollel, two groups for married and unmarried.

But they get some inkling though it doesn't help for practical.
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amother




Aubergine


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 8:04 am
amother wrote:
I don’t have any teenagers yet but don’t boys learn about it in Gemara?


So, I overheard my 13 year old son learning and I was shocked! He is learning kedushin and there is a lot of marital info there.

DH said in the name of rabbanim that when they learn in conjunction to Torah, there are no improper thoughts.

Surprisingly I think this might be true
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malki2




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Feb 08 2019, 8:07 am
Ruchel wrote:
Some passages are definitely skipped over - even in kollel, two groups for married and unmarried.

But they get some inkling though it doesn't help for practical.


From what I understand, in Litvishe yeshivos they don’t skip over anything, although the rebbeim may not discuss the topics explicitly. Maybe for Chasidim it is different.

As my husband’s rebbi instructed him, it is better for them to get educated regarding these issues early, so the education is already set in their minds when the taavos hit and they know what to expect. Also, you would be surprised what kids pick up from their friends. Better to hear it straight from their fathers, especially if they have a good relationship with their fathers.
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