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Can you guess why this school only allowed 5% to take SATs?
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amother




Cyan


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 12:32 am
Delete

Last edited by amother on Mon, Feb 11 2019, 11:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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amother




Apricot


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 12:41 am
DrMom wrote:
I'm confused about the entire concept of a school "letting" students take SAT tests.

Can't you register for the SAT test on your own? Why do you need the school's permission?


Did you read the article? The author claims she didn't know anything about SATs and couldn't find info online as there was no internet policy she adhered to. A few top students took it cause the school wanted them to.
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amother




Blush


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 12:42 am
Smileforamile, your “sarcasm” as you put it and by misquoting them on purpose is again hotzaas shem ra.
Please be careful with your words as your information is simply false, and so as I said before it’s motzi Shem ra on an entire institution.
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amother




Cerulean


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 6:30 am
I went to a mainstream BY high school in NY. We all took regents, PSAT's and SAT's.
I would say 90% of my grade went to college after going to seminary.

The year that I graduated, NY City decided to choose 100 12th grade students out of the thousands of 12th graders in NY to receive a full scholarship to college, based on their grades and SAT scores.

Three out of the 100 students chosen were from my class! They were written up in news articles and our school was very proud of them.
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 6:33 am
Some schools graduate only the kids who will succeed because they want high statistics
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amother




Olive


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 7:12 am
what a sad pathetic article
particularly for a frum women website

you bet what spices are used for the ketoret are more important than the "science" of Harry Potter

this belongs more on a website for off the derech than any productive conversation about chinuch
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amother




Babyblue


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 7:28 am
I just spoke to someone who attended a M.O school (not in the USA) and they also did not allow weaker students to take government exams so they wouldn't drag the school ratings down.
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amother




Green


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 7:45 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
No, the top boys schools are not on par with the top girls schools.

And which schools do you consider excellent - New York City public schools LOL LOL ?


You are correct that the top boys schools are not on par with the top girls schools. They are superior. I have boy/girl twins graduating this year. The quality of the teaching staff and the syllabi at my son's school are above and beyond what the best BY has to offer.

I have written before that the college classes give a watered down version of real college courses. The boys follow an on depth version. My kids take the same classes at different schools. My daughter's class is a soft version of my son's. The boys are pushed to stretch their brains. Even the chassidish boys "think" better than the BY girls. The boys think like attorneys. I always say the Yeshiva boys entered law school thinking like the rest of the class did when they graduated. This isn't true of the girls.

The goal of the girls school, like the article said, is so the girls can get a career to support the family rather than to maximize their potential.

I taught frum versions of college classes. The girls would constantly ask if they should write something down. That is a ridiculous question for college students to ask. The girls only know what to spit back. They can't think for themselves.

The saddest thing to me was to see girls waste their potential. I taught several girls who were the daughters of male doctors and were top students. Not one tried to get into medical school. All of them limited themselves.
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amother




Olive


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 7:49 am
not wanting to choose to be a dr. is hardly limiting oneself

never understood how proponents of freedom want to dictate the choices of others
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ora_43




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 7:53 am
On the one hand, I do sympathize with what she's saying. As a parent, I don't want my kids to be in the position of feeling like they were forced away from secular education, even if it's less "forced" and just "not given the tools to pursue it."

It's especially awful that the school apparently was completely aware of how important the SATs are, and held some kids back just to make themselves look better. That's the opposite of what educators should be doing.

On the other hand, she's confusing some VERY different things.

- a school giving students all the knowledge they need to succeed in college, but not encouraging college, isn't even close to the same thing as schools not giving students the knowledge they need to even get into college.

- not being encouraged to pursue a certain career/education path isn't the same as not being allowed to pursue it.

- she's complaining about a mix of things that are fraud, and things that are integral to frum education. No frum school should keep kids from taking the SATs. Any frum school is going to teach Torah, and is going to discourage dating among young teens.

Maybe it's just me, but I finished the article without much of a clear sense of what - if anything - she thinks should be done. There's just a general feeling of "frum education turned out to not be what I wanted for myself, and that's not fair." And all sympathy aside, that doesn't loan itself to any realistic policy. Nobody is suggesting that parents shouldn't have the right to give their children a religious education. For good reason.
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amother




Olive


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 7:55 am
meh
given the lack of credibility of many of these types of pieces I would not take it verbatim
clearly has an axe to grind
and often out for their fifteen seconds of 'fame'
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amother




Green


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 8:30 am
amother wrote:
not wanting to choose to be a dr. is hardly limiting oneself

never understood how proponents of freedom want to dictate the choices of others


Being a doctor or aspiring to be the top of a profession was never a choice for them.

One of my girl's father is my doctor. I always ask about her and send her my regards. I tried to tell him that his daughter should go to medical school. She has the head for it. He said his daughter needs a shidduch. Surprised

Another one of my students is daughter of someone I seriously dated in college. We had many DMCs. He never limited my dreams. He always encouraged me. It is disheartening to see how circumstances limits his daughter. She is a brilliant girl.

Another student of mine is the daughter of an actuary. She is also a gifted mathematician. She is now a BY teacher while her husband learns.
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amother




Olive


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 8:39 am
how patronizing
you know better than them what they should choose for their lives
who is to say that a medical career would make her happier than a happy marriage and family
or that a brilliant young woman may be happiest choosing to be a BY morah
and if she wanted both she could go for that
regardless it is her choice!
do you really think talking to her father about her life choices as a young woman is respectful?
sounds like he gave you a polite answer after you chose to highjack your professional appointment by crossing a boundary to talk to him personally about his daughters choices in life!
someone chooses kollel and this is your business?
it is so disrespectful to look at their choices and say they did not have a choice because they made a choice you do not approve of
run your own life and let them run theirs
whatever happened to mutual respect
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PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 8:54 am
amother wrote:
Why are you discussing regents when the article is talking about SATs?
Do BYHS, YOB, BYA, Masores, Prospect let or encourage all girls to take SATs?
(I do believe the author that schools look negatively at going to non Jewish colleges. Maybe not Prospect, but the rest)


Because it looks like someone either deliberately spread a lie or was misinformed, so posters felt a need to share the truth.
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amother




Lilac


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 8:55 am
Fox wrote:
Colleges in NY do not require Regents. They will permit you to submit your Regents scores to, I dunno, demonstrate that you're a good do-bee.

But no college -- not even a public community college -- will debase itself by suggesting that it doesn't attract people from outside NY. Since they cannot impose different admissions standards for NYers and non-NYers, they just make the whole Regents business optional.

Whatever time your kids would spend preparing for Regents exams would be far better spent preparing for SATs. A higher SAT score is worth far more than high Regents scores.


This might sound nice in theory, but practically speaking, passing regents exams is not really optional. The school requires any student who fails to retest in the summer, which is an embarrassing hassle for anyone in that situation. Presumably there are consequences for the school depending on the pass/fail rate of its students. I don't live in NY anymore, and I don't see much value in regents, but if I did I would encourage my children to study just because the school will require them to pass.
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amother




Lilac


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:00 am
smileforamile wrote:
Really? False, false, and false. If you live in NY, you need a Regents diploma in order to go to college. If you have an IEP, you can get a local diploma and still go to a community college.

Regents don't show up as pass-fail on any transcripts I've seen- and I teach in public school... they certainly weren't pass-fail on my transcripts from HS.

Unless I'm missing some sarcasm...?


Feel free to scroll through the admissions requirements for the schools I listed. There is no mention whatsoever of regents anywhere. They do not have different requirements depending on the student's state, that would be unfair.

My own transcripts from a BY HS list regents as pass/fail.
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amother




Green


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:05 am
amother wrote:
how patronizing
you know better than them what they should choose for their lives
who is to say that a medical career would make her happier than a happy marriage and family
or that a brilliant young woman may be happiest choosing to be a BY morah
and if she wanted both she could go for that
regardless it is her choice!
do you really think talking to her father about her life choices as a young woman is respectful?
sounds like he gave you a polite answer after you chose to highjack your professional appointment by crossing a boundary to talk to him personally about his daughters choices in life!
someone chooses kollel and this is your business?
it is so disrespectful to look at their choices and say they did not have a choice because they made a choice you do not approve of
run your own life and let them run theirs
whatever happened to mutual respect


The beginning of the conversation is that my doctor told me she is going to be a PT assistant when I asked him how his daughter is doing. I answered that she has the head for medical school. That's when he answered she needs a shidduch.

Why should a woman's worth be dependent on being married?

The BY morah told me that by rights her husband should have a job. That doesn't sound like a woman happy with her lot in life.

I know 2 rebbetzens of prestigious Rabbis who told me that they hate that they are limited to thier lives. Their husband is busy with everyone else. I promise you that I did not instigate that line of conversation.

Actually, two friends of mine wanted to be nurses. They were "forbidden" from going back tol school to get their GED. How patronizing of the community to decide on what is best for these women. They are the ones pigeon holing everyone.

Not every woman is suited to have babies, take care of a home, and work at a job instead of have a profession.
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:15 am
The fact is that most women are happier being primarily mother's at home and having your husband out earning a living. I believe the highest happiness rates are for women with flexible part-time jobs.

Most female doctors and professionals that I know are very proud of themselves and successful but many of them end up being bitter and depressed by the age of 40.

Of course you'll have exceptions to every rule but of course there's no point arguing about this on this website

If I point out the many successful graduates of these high school you'll just say that the exception proves the rule.
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Ravenclaw




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:26 am
Green, I totally agree. While the boys secular education may be less than the girls, at least they are encouraged to think.
My main goal as a teacher is to teach my girls to think, and they are so jarred by it.
Daily dialogue:
“Where does it say it in the text?”
“It doesn’t, it’s subtext. Think.”
“Huh?! But if it doesn’t say it how can I answer the question?!”
While most boys are encouraged to think and question, and are even praised when asking particularly difficult questions, girls are taught to submit to authority.
A boy who argues with his rebbe is a masmid.
A girl is considered a mechutzaf.
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amother




Red


Post  Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:27 am
I also believe that there is a lot of wasted potential in the chassidish community. I had some girls in my class who were brilliant and they went on to become teachers and Speech therapists.
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