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Can you guess why this school only allowed 5% to take SATs?
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amother
Copper


 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:39 am
Fox wrote:
Easy shmeasy!

You type up a list of all your courses and the grades; calculate your GPA; then have them sign and stamp it. No stamp? Make one up.

If they ask why, you say, "Sometimes a job wants proof you graduated and did well."

Now, it's true that (a) not everyone would know how to do that; and (b) you shouldn't have to.

But I've worked with enough schools in accreditation processes and with regard to electronic records that you'd be shocked at some of the bad practices that exist in schools with robust secular studies that proudly send everyone to college. Unfortunately, ignorance and craziness aren't isolated to any one segment of Jews.

You are saying that we should commit fraud which is inappropriate. Private schools in NY don't have to offer a regents diploma but they do have to be accredited so that students graduate with a real high school diploma. Otherwise, how do we know that the school is preparing students for college or life? If there is no accreditation then there is no oversight which means so what prevents them from offering weaving classes instead of math and science?

Signed, someone that was not accepted to Brooklyn College with her worthless unaccredited, non-regents diploma/transcripts from a chasidishe school and had to get a GED to attend. And had to take remedial classes to catch up to students from both public schools as well as Bais Yakov/Chabad schools (many of whom were on full scholarships). I'll take a Bais Yakov education any day over the dismal "education" I got at the chasidishe school I attended. Hell, I would take the chasidishe boys gemara education over the "education" I got at the chasidishe school I attended, I may have been a lawyer by now if that were the case. Maybe I should write an article as well...
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:41 am
Ravenclaw wrote:
Green, I totally agree. While the boys secular education may be less than the girls, at least they are encouraged to think.
My main goal as a teacher is to teach my girls to think, and they are so jarred by it.
Daily dialogue:
“Where does it say it in the text?”
“It doesn’t, it’s subtext. Think.”
“Huh?! But if it doesn’t say it how can I answer the question?!”
While most boys are encouraged to think and question, and are even praised when asking particularly difficult questions, girls are taught to submit to authority.
A boy who argues with his rebbe is a masmid.
A girl is considered a mechutzaf.


This very much depends on the school. My experience was very different from what you describe, and thankfully my dds' experience is as well.
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amother
Green


 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:42 am
ectomorph wrote:
The fact is that most women are happier being primarily mother's at home and having your husband out earning a living. I believe the highest happiness rates are for women with flexible part-time jobs.

Most female doctors and professionals that I know are very proud of themselves and successful but many of them end up being bitter and depressed by the age of 40.

Of course you'll have exceptions to every rule but of course there's no point arguing about this on this website

If I point out the many successful graduates of these high school you'll just say that the exception proves the rule.


That's not a fact that most women are happy being primarily home makers. That's your reality.

But let's say that's true, what of all the women "forced" to support men not as intelligent as them in second tier jobs?

How many female doctors do you know that are over 40? And what country are these doctors? One in five female doctors in the US are dissatisfied with the work home life balance. That's far from bitter and depressed at 40.
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:43 am
My sister is extremely bright and energetic. I encouraged her to go to medical school. She chose to become a nurse because she wanted to be able to work part time and raise her kids.


In every culture women tend to make this same choice.
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amother
Green


 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:44 am
ectomorph wrote:
My sister is extremely bright and energetic. I encouraged her to go to medical school. She chose to become a nurse because she wanted to be able to work part time and raise her kids.


In every culture women tend to make this same choice.


That's not true. Why are there so many female doctors?

According to your theroy there should be none.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:45 am
who is to say those specific people would be happier with a medical career? or any high powered career? some would and they go for it, some wouldn't and thats their choice.
you think its wasted potential
but it is not up to you and you cannot judge for them
yes its extremely patronizing to look at someone else life and their choices and think you know better
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:45 am
amother wrote:
That's not a fact that most women are happy being primarily home makers. That's your reality.

But say that's true, what of all the women "forced" to support men not as intelligent as them in second tier jobs?

How many female doctors do you know that are over 40? And what country are these doctors? One in five female doctors in the US are dissatisfied with the work home life balance. That's far from bitter and depressed at 40.

Are you referring to the kollel system?

women go for the lower tier jobs because they want to be the one to raise their kids
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:46 am
amother wrote:
That's not true. Why are there so many female doctors?

According to your theroy there should be none.
that is not at all what I said
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amother
Green


 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:50 am
amother wrote:
who is to say those specific people would be happier with a medical career? or any high powered career? some would and they go for it, some wouldn't and thats their choice.
you think its wasted potential
but it is not up to you and you cannot judge for them


Whose to say they wouldn't be happier? One of my friends that wanted to be a nurse ended up an uneducated care giver. The other one works retail. Both hate it.

The point is that it is not up to them. They judge. I don't judge. I think it is unfair.

It is a myth that every frum woman wants to be a stepford wife.

We need to have a liberation for the woman career wise in the RW frum community.
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amother
Green


 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 9:53 am
ectomorph wrote:
that is not at all what I said

This is what you said:
"In every culture women tend to make this same choice " That choice was choosing nursing over medical school.

If that were true, there should be very few female doctors.
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amother
Green


 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 10:04 am
ectomorph wrote:
Are you referring to the kollel system?

women go for the lower tier jobs because they want to be the one to raise their kids


They don't choose. It is almost like a river flowing and the girls bobbing along. My daughter is undecided whether to go to seminary or college.

She said that no one ever stopped to explain what seminary is and why the girls go. It is something they just do. None of her friends could answer why.

That's not a choice.

I went to a meeting with the school to discuss her education beyond HS. They gave me a selection of seminaries that were a good fit for my daughter.

That's not a choice.

I told my daughter I will pay for whatever she chooses.

That's a choice.
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amother
Green


 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 10:09 am
ectomorph wrote:
Are you referring to the kollel system?

women go for the lower tier jobs because they want to be the one to raise their kids


So they must work in a lower tier job and support the husband. Can't you see how stressful that could be?

I have a friend who is a frum female surgeon. She practices and raises her own kids. She is off Wednesdays and leaves early friday. It is doable.
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urban gypsy




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 10:29 am
ectomorph wrote:
Most female doctors and professionals that I know are very proud of themselves and successful but many of them end up being bitter and depressed by the age of 40.


Oh spare me. If they end up bitter and depressed, it's because of the way they are treated in their communities by narrow-minded people like yourself, not because they have a good livelihood and interesting work.
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renslet




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 10:42 am
I always tell my students "Don't let school interfere with your education." What that usually means is to stop memorizing the teacher's words and start thinking. If you miss something or want to find out more, go out and find out!
I fail to understand how someone with a masters? is still blaming her high school education. Seriously?
We sit and tell kids that Avrohom was different than everyone at the age of three, that Rabbi Akiva started learning at 40, Hashem gave everyone Bechirah. Of you want to do something different than what you've done till now and you feel it's the correct thing to do, then do it.
But why the blame game?
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chmom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 10:47 am
Quote: Most female doctors and professionals that I know are very proud of themselves and successful but many of them end up being bitter and by the age of 40

What a load of hooey
As a doctor over forty I can assure you that most doctors are very happy with their line of work and I know quite a few
As a matter of fact my job may be the one thing that keeps me from being bitter and depressed when dealing with opinions such as yours
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 10:50 am
I don't know why people are bashing the author. This was her experience. There are many women who are not cut out to being home all day with their own kids, let alone others. I'm grateful that my daughter and I can go to a female ob/gyn. There are many intellectual women who would be very frustrated if all they would be allowed to do was be a morah! Not putting down morot, but you cannot compare the kind of work they do to what very educated women do.
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 10:51 am
amother wrote:
They don't choose. It is almost like a river flowing and the girls bobbing along. My daughter is undecided whether to go to seminary or college.

She said that no one ever stopped to explain what seminary is and why the girls go. It is something they just do. None of her friends could answer why.

That's not a choice.

I went to a meeting with the school to discuss her education beyond HS. They gave me a selection of seminaries that were a good fit for my daughter.

That's not a choice.

I told my daughter I will pay for whatever she chooses.

That's a choice.


Most of my classmates did both. Why can’t you get the best of both worlds? If you register with a college beforehand, you can get up to 36 credits by the time you finish your year in Israel.

I’ll admit I cannot relate to the article, but who knows if we attended the same school. My school was a classic BY. I don’t think anyone would have known who took the SATs and who didn’t. The education was more than enough for a thinking girl to succeed with. Yes, we didn’t learn male anatomy in Bio which meant one question docked from the regent, leaving the highest score at 96 or 97. It’s possible that other years they had more questions docked, but from the few graduating classes I knew there was just one. And if you were curious, nothing stopped you from looking up the info in a study book if your school’s textbook ripped the pages out.

Many of not most girls went on to get higher education. For some that meant TTI, and for some that meant medical school, and many, many girls were in between. Personally, I don’t think the school had the most influence in these choices; the parents had much more influence.

Internet wasn’t really spoken about (maybe it was just pre asifa days so there wasn’t such an agenda against it). I’m sure the school didn’t allow internet but I don’t know anyone who refused to go online because of a school rule. Maybe we were just a bunch of rebels 😆.

I do feel for those who went to the very chassidish schools and never learned chumash or Navi inside. I think that is a big handicap for a frum person.
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amother
Slategray


 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 10:52 am
amother wrote:
You are correct that the top boys schools are not on par with the top girls schools. They are superior. I have boy/girl twins graduating this year. The quality of the teaching staff and the syllabi at my son's school are above and beyond what the best BY has to offer.

I have written before that the college classes give a watered down version of real college courses. The boys follow an on depth version. My kids take the same classes at different schools. My daughter's class is a soft version of my son's. The boys are pushed to stretch their brains. Even the chassidish boys "think" better than the BY girls. The boys think like attorneys. I always say the Yeshiva boys entered law school thinking like the rest of the class did when they graduated. This isn't true of the girls.

The goal of the girls school, like the article said, is so the girls can get a career to support the family rather than to maximize their potential.

I taught frum versions of college classes. The girls would constantly ask if they should write something down. That is a ridiculous question for college students to ask. The girls only know what to spit back. They can't think for themselves.

The saddest thing to me was to see girls waste their potential. I taught several girls who were the daughters of male doctors and were top students. Not one tried to get into medical school. All of them limited themselves.


IMO medical school would be limiting yourself. I'd hope my child would pursue whatever his or her dreams are be that art, medicine, teaching law, etc. However, if we're speaking about pushing yourself academically, medical school (to become an MD) is not necessarily the way to do that. Advanced PHD programs in science, math, engineering, philosophy, etc. trump MD programs any day.
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nchr




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 10:56 am
I think another short coming about the frum school system is how it limits a child's knowledge of what s/he can study. Everyone knows about the standards jobs and majors, but there is a whole wide academic world out there that many frum students do not even know exist. I remember having a discussion with someone who was trying to attend college in her mid twenties and she said that she had no idea there were 100s of fields of study and really always thought majors were limited to about 20-30 different topics.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 11 2019, 11:03 am
amother wrote:
I also believe that there is a lot of wasted potential in the chassidish community. I had some girls in my class who were brilliant and they went on to become teachers and Speech therapists.


Um, don't we need brilliant teachers?
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