Isis member wants “a second chance”

gold21

Tue, Feb 19 2019, 5:47 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

On one hand, it seems pretty convenient that as soon as she saw the hell that is Syria, she's running screaming back to America. Not so evil now, huh? She had to go through three dead husbands and give birth to a boy to figure that out.

On the other hand, yes. Her teshuva seems sincere. Nothing like real-world experience to make you realize how stupid you were as a teenager. Also, our brains aren't fully matured until 25, and I definitely saw God as more black and white when I was younger. I had a healthy upbringing, and a fairly normal religion, so I didn't think God wanted me to blow up people, but we have to allow for the fact that some people don't always get that.

I would let her back in and put her on a watch list, so she can't travel without alerts.

It's not what she saw that made her change her mind. The caliphate is currently on its last hurrah and on the verge of total surrender. Suddenly, viola, she sees the error in her ways. Confused

Cheiny

Tue, Feb 19 2019, 5:48 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

I’m thankful to see you’re in the minority.

Raisin

Tue, Feb 19 2019, 5:51 pm

She has less of my sympathy then the british girl who was only 15.

OTOH many people who do truly horrible things don't lose their citizenship.

I guess one suggestion is to let her back in and try her for her crimes. (treason etc) Maybe she prefers prison in the USA (and her son in foster care or with family in the USA) then both remaining in Syria.

causemommysaid

Tue, Feb 19 2019, 5:51 pm

I think America should take her back, give her baby to her relatives, and prosecute her as a defector, traitor, and possible terrorist. Let her decide if that's worth it.

princessleah

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:12 pm

causemommysaid wrote:

I think America should take her back, give her baby to her relatives, and prosecute her as a defector, traitor, and possible terrorist. Let her decide if that's worth it.

This. Don't "take her back," extradite her, try her for treason and offering material support to terrorists and inciting violence, and put her poor kid in foster care.

doctorima

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 2:11 pm

Unfortunately, from what I've read, there's no way to revoke her citizenship, and as a US citizen, she is legally entitled to return to the US. That doesn't mean that she's protected from prosecution, though, which is why she's scared to return and wants guarantees or protection and refugee status.

The DOJ has every right to charge her with treason, terrorism, aiding the enemy, etc., and if they announce now that she's been charged with all this, I think she'll suddenly lose her interest in returning.

ora_43

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 3:13 pm

She doesn't even say she's sorry for any of the terrible things she did.

She regrets joining ISIS because it turned out to be terrible and oppressive and she ended up living in horrific poverty. But of course, any sane person isn't wondering "so was living under ISIS all you dreamed it would be?" they are wondering "so are you sorry for supporting genocide?"

Where is the part where she's sorry for supporting genocide???

I think all countries should take their citizens back. Because being allowed in is an important part of citizenship. But taking them back doesn't mean wiping the slate clean. She should be allowed to return to America to serve a jail sentence, and should be on every watchlist known to man for the rest of her life.

Trusted? Maybe if she spends the next 50 years of her life fighting religious extremism and doing her best to make amends to ISIS' many many victims... nah, keep her on the watchlist even then.

singleagain

Thu, Feb 21 2019, 7:50 am

doctorima wrote:

Update: Dept. of State says she's actually not a US citizen and has no legal right to enter the US, and will not be allowed to do so - https://abcnews.go.com/US/isis.....93487

It says she was born in Hackensack, NJ. I thought being born in these boarders was the only thing that was required for citizenship.

Also she had an American passport when she left. You can't get one of those if you aren't a citizen.

I also read an article that said she "hopes to be allowed to return, even if it means serving jail time."

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/a.....klrvs serving jail time"

Reality

Thu, Feb 21 2019, 8:54 am

doctorima wrote:

There is no way she deserves refugee status!

I agree with you! If she wants to come back she should be arrested as soon as she steps off the plane.

For all we know she could be a "sleeper cell". I wouldn't trust a word out of her mouth.

Reality

Thu, Feb 21 2019, 9:01 am

singleagain wrote:

If you read the article it says her father was a diplomat from Yemen. Foreign diplomats are not considered under U.S jurisdiction. That is why they are able to flout our laws and owe thousands in parking tickets for example. Their kids that are born here aren't automatic citizens.

singleagain

Thu, Feb 21 2019, 9:22 am

Reality wrote:

I did see the bit about her father being a diplomat. But it also says his assignment as diplomat was over before she was born. And my understanding is that if she was born on US soil she is an automatic citizen. .... I admit I don't understand all the nuances of the law, but felt this fact was worth pointing out. Especially, since she previously had an American passport and you can't get that without being a citizen.

Jeanette

Thu, Feb 21 2019, 10:18 am

1. The issue of her citizenship was already adjudicated by the courts when she was issued a US passport. Her father was not serving as a diplomat when she was born. They can't just declare her an uncitizen.

2. The fear in the state department is that she may not have committed crimes that are chargeable under our laws. Even if she's convicted of something she may not serve a very long term. So it seems easier to just refuse her a new passport and let her languish in Syria.

3. It's an interesting case because she's not a very sympathetic protagonist, but on the other hand it sets a precedent that citizenship can be revoked (or even pretend you never had it). Even if today it's only applied to terrorists or terrorist sympathizers, who knows how it could be applied down the road to politically unpopular groups. I'm an American born in Israel to American parents. What would stop an administration from deciding one day that I'm not a citizen?

Again the question isn't whether she "deserves" citizenship but whether our legal system has a process for revoking citizenship and for what cause.

doctorima

Thu, Feb 21 2019, 10:20 am

Based on her history, the US government is being exacting in applying subtle legal nuances to argue that she's not a citizen and has no right to come back here. If her parents were visiting foreign tourists who gave birth in the US, she'd automatically be a citizen, but because her father was a diplomat, special laws govern, and the US is being strict about it.

I now see her lawyer's counter-argument that her father's diplomatic status ended prior to her birth. I don't know if this is for sure accurate, and how it would change her legal status, and what the Dept. of State will answer to this. I also don't know about her passport, but I would assume that she was born and raised as a legal citizen who got a passport, and it's only now in light of her defection to ISIS that they're trying to retroactively make her not a citizen.

It will be an interesting story to watch as it unfolds. As I said though, if the DOJ indicts her on charges punishable by decades or even life in prison for treason and aiding the enemy and possibly even incitement to murder, she will hopefully lose her interest in coming back here.

Blessing1

Thu, Feb 21 2019, 10:26 am

It is so so scary that in today's day and age people are willing to risk letting a terrorist into America because she feels bad for her actions. It makes me feel unsafe that this is even a discussion. There's no way in the world that she can be trusted, how foolish to believe that.
There are consequences for your actions.

Jeanette

Thu, Feb 21 2019, 11:45 am

Again, nobody is justifying what she did or thinks that there should be no consequences. If she does return, there's no question that she should be prosecuted for her crimes.

The only questions that matter are:

1) Is she a citizen?
2) Is there a process for the US government to refuse to recognize the citizenship of people who commit crimes against the US.

Maybe there should be such a process. Maybe Congress should pass a law stating that if you go overseas and support a terrorist group or enemy state, your citizenship will be revoked and you will be refused reentry. But if Congress has NOT passed such a law, it's questionable whether the president or the state department has the power to do so.

keym

Thu, Feb 21 2019, 11:53 am

Jeanette wrote:

Granted, it's been a while since I studied the Constitution. But is there something about those who "Bear arms against these United States". One could argue whether she did or didn't.
And maybe history experts can help. But after the Civil War, wasn't there discussion about what to do with the leaders of the Confederacy. I'm very foggy. But was Robert E Lee Exiled?