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If you run a HS that does not accept every applicant
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:38 pm
amother wrote:
How is it possible for a school to accept every single applicant? Besides for the space issue, they do have a responsibility to their current students. I would not want my girls school to just accept anyone that applies. A school has the right to pick and choose who to accept. Some girls/families are just not a fit for the school they applied to. Some people only want a certain school even if they don't belong there.

Gaiiva.
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:42 pm
amother wrote:
That's the idea. When you take the exam, you're saying that you want to go to one of the schools in the consortium. Now, would an MO school in Teaneck be excited about taking a Satmar kid from Williamsburg? Probably not, because they'd assume something was behind the switch, but my experience leads me to believe that they would make it work.

As to the posters who want schools to be full of kids who all have the same hashkafa: insular thinking is fine if that's your thing, but you're always going to have to deal with people who parent differently. There's always one kid who gets to stay up until ten, and another who's allowed to eat junk food for breakfast. And somehow, you manage to get across the message that different families have different rules. The same can easily apply to watching videos or wearing different clothing. We're not talking about apikorsus here.
of course you will never find the perfect bunch of kids for your children to be friends with and I'm sure their parents raise them differently than you and you teach your kids that different families do things differently than you whether it's staying up late at night , eating more junk food.. etc.. but why should I be busy doing that plus explaining to my kids about different hashkafas if I can just send my kid to a school who's parents hashkafa is similar to ours ? Imagine a chassidish kid in a modern orthodox school ? Yes the kid may be more open minded and well rounded but why create more difficulties for the kid by sending him to a school who's hashkafas are completely different than the ones in his own home ? Why confuse your kids more than necessary ?
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:51 pm
amother wrote:
of course you will never find the perfect bunch of kids for your children to be friends with and I'm sure their parents raise them differently than you and you teach your kids that different families do things differently than you whether it's staying up late at night , eating more junk food.. etc.. but why should I be busy doing that plus explaining to my kids about different hashkafas if I can just send my kid to a school who's parents hashkafa is similar to ours ? Imagine a chassidish kid in a modern orthodox school ? Yes the kid may be more open minded and well rounded but why create more difficulties for the kid by sending him to a school who's hashkafas are completely different than the ones in his own home ? Why confuse your kids more than necessary ?

Well, I've got to say my DS is a Chasidish kid (almost adult already) in an MO school and he thrives there. He wears his Chasidish hat and fits right in. His yeshiva allows filtered smartphones and the Rosh yeshiva speaks often and also practices himself strong shmiras at aynayim and the boys are taught that it's up to them to be strong. They don't need a school rule for that.
My other son is in a Chasidish yeshiva where no phones are allowed and he comes home with the news of every movie, sport , news piece on politics , and names of rappers etc. ALL from yeshiva. We ourselves do not allow our kids any internet access. Only me and DH have access for now. However in the school that is supposedly so much more strict and supposedly in line with our hashkafos , the boys are picking up the Schmutz . The one in the MO yeshiva is busy with his shmiras aynayim and not listening to non Jewish music. It's just ironic.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:53 pm
amother wrote:
of course you will never find the perfect bunch of kids for your children to be friends with and I'm sure their parents raise them differently than you and you teach your kids that different families do things differently than you whether it's staying up late at night , eating more junk food.. etc.. but why should I be busy doing that plus explaining to my kids about different hashkafas if I can just send my kid to a school who's parents hashkafa is similar to ours ? Imagine a chassidish kid in a modern orthodox school ? Yes the kid may be more open minded and well rounded but why create more difficulties for the kid by sending him to a school who's hashkafas are completely different than the ones in his own home ? Why confuse your kids more than necessary ?


I understand sending your kids to a school that shares your worldview.

The question is just how narrow that worldview is. Which variations are acceptable, and which are not? Does everyone who dresses alike think alike? The generation above us had a more varied group of peers than our kids do. Do you think they are damaged goods?

Food for thought.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:53 pm
amother wrote:
That really depends on the kid and the community, my child goes to a small school and I know all the families in his class and he hasn’t been exposed to anything I don’t want him to know yet. Obviously there are so many aspects of parenting that are beyond the scope of this thread and there are obviously situations that are teaching moments for you to explain that even though they do something, we don’t. But as a general rule, I’m very happy that my child’s classmates families have the same priorities as us and we can be mechanech our children the way we want to.


The bolded is key. Wait till the school gets big, which it will inevitably as it grows and stretches to accommodate siblings, etc...and things will change.

There's a school in Lakewood that started out small and very RW. A friend of mine who is ultra-RW sends her kids there. As the school grew and opened up additional classes to accommodate both new applicants and siblings, the tone of the school changed. My friend is now not so happy there, her kids are getting all sorts of influences that she thought she would get away with by sending there.

Basically, you can shelter your kids for just so long and just so much. Eventually the bubble bursts, and you need to prepare your kids about that eventuality.
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amother
Peach


 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 2:02 pm
Tachlis- what should a school with fifty spots and two hundred applicants do? If you had to do the choosing, how would you do it?
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 2:12 pm
amother wrote:
Tachlis- what should a school with fifty spots and two hundred applicants do? If you had to do the choosing, how would you do it?


Good question. The community is neglectful for having not opened enough spots. The number of high school applicants shouldn't come as a surprise. If you know how many first graders you have in the neighborhood, you have eight years to open up at least that number of places. In a growing neighborhood, increase by the past rate of growth. Of course, as the mutual funds say, past performance is no guarantee of future results, but at least you'll be in the ballpark.
איזהו חכם הרואה את הנולד
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amother
cornflower


 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 2:17 pm
Chayalle wrote:
The bolded is key. Wait till the school gets big, which it will inevitably as it grows and stretches to accommodate siblings, etc...and things will change.

There's a school in Lakewood that started out small and very RW. A friend of mine who is ultra-RW sends her kids there. As the school grew and opened up additional classes to accommodate both new applicants and siblings, the tone of the school changed. My friend is now not so happy there, her kids are getting all sorts of influences that she thought she would get away with by sending there.

Basically, you can shelter your kids for just so long and just so much. Eventually the bubble bursts, and you need to prepare your kids about that eventuality.


Of course things change as life goes on and we roll with the punches but I’m grateful that the school insists on certain standards and his education at home and school are consistent.

Growing up, my parents gave us a strong sense of pride in our standards but it was hard to be the only girl in class who didn’t watch movies. Other girls weren’t allowed to either but did anyway at friends houses but my parents taught me to be proud and not to compromise so even though I didn’t watch anything, I still felt left out. I’m grateful my son doesn’t have that struggle
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amother
Brown


 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 2:33 pm
There was a comment earlier about taking weak students. I guess most schools take weak students but there is s limit.
My sons school has excellent resources for struggling students and they get tons of applicants and accept a lot. It’s a very hard school to get into in general.
But when you have so many self contained classes in a school it is a stress in the school and even if goverment subsidized it is still a huge financial stress on an already struggling school and staff.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 2:36 pm
amother wrote:
Good question. The community is neglectful for having not opened enough spots. The number of high school applicants shouldn't come as a surprise. If you know how many first graders you have in the neighborhood, you have eight years to open up at least that number of places. In a growing neighborhood, increase by the past rate of growth. Of course, as the mutual funds say, past performance is no guarantee of future results, but at least you'll be in the ballpark.
איזהו חכם הרואה את הנולד


Who is neglectful? The school is private and has the right to remain small. My kids go to a small school and the principle will not open more classes. She runs a great small school but isn’t interested in managing or fundraising an institution. And that is her right.

Why aren’t you neglectful that you didn’t choose to open a school when there wasn’t enough space.
I hold you fully responsible!
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tweety1




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 2:44 pm
amother wrote:
Wow! the truth? that my son is garbage? he davens with a minyan, he spends his spare time learning! What on earth is disgusting about him? That he struggles with gemarra? That makes his a piece of garbage??

Not that your son is garbage I'm sorry I wasn't specific. Didn't mean to hurt you son or you ch"v but the yeshiva system. I can name on here a few yeshivos that I know off hand that have that screwed up system. Wow. So you found one or two yeshivos that dont operate that way. But the majority of them do. And thats the truth.
Eta: I never write on such long threads. It's my pet peeve. I had to now, for that poster to understand what I meant and apologize.
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 2:46 pm
I'm going to throw out another question.
Money?
Is it OK for a school to choose the students who are able to pay full tuition over those who can't.
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 2:50 pm
amother wrote:
Of course things change as life goes on and we roll with the punches but I’m grateful that the school insists on certain standards and his education at home and school are consistent.

Growing up, my parents gave us a strong sense of pride in our standards but it was hard to be the only girl in class who didn’t watch movies. Other girls weren’t allowed to either but did anyway at friends houses but my parents taught me to be proud and not to compromise so even though I didn’t watch anything, I still felt left out. I’m grateful my son doesn’t have that struggle


Part of our jobs as parents, is instilling hashkafah, pride and standards in our kids. Your parents did that for you, but you are denying those very same lessons to your son. There is a very high probability that your son will eventually be exposed to the myriad of different hashkafos, be it as an older child or an adult. But he won't have the tools to handle it whenever the time comes. Avoiding situations doesn't equate to a learned skill.

Living in a bubble is a temporary safe haven, unless you remain there forever. You are taking the road that makes it easier for you and makes it temporary easier for your child, but may eventually create long term hardship for your son.
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 2:52 pm
Thx for responding Dankbar. Don't know that we'll ever see eye to eye on this, but I do appreciate your coming back with kinder comments. WIshing success to all kids and their families!
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leah233




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 2:54 pm
I've dealt with more than my share of rejection dealing with schools in Lakewood.Even so

(1)I don't think the people who did it are bad people who did something that they will have to answer for after 120 years. They are no different than people on Imamother who complain about people wanting favors from them that they don't feel capable of providing.


(2) I'm frequently struck by the hypocrisy of those who send their own above average children to the more elite schools, yet they still criticize schools in a general sense for being too picky or not being run in a way that every child can succeed.

And the hypocrisy of those who are very critical of a certain haskafa but then very indignant when a school which runs according to that haskafa doesn't want to accept their child.

(3)If someone doesn't identify strongly enough with a local school to financially support it when their child is not in the school and they aren't considering sending any child there, then they have no rights to complain about why doesn't the school care enough about the community to accept every community child.
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amother
Gray


 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 4:04 pm
amother wrote:
I'm not making any assumptions . If your child was a perfect fit for the school then your child would have been accepted . All I'm saying is you have to be honest with yourself when applying . That's all. I didn't apply to the most yeshivish school where I live because I'm being honest and I realize that it's not a good fit for me and my family . Bottom line is, when applying you have to be honest with yourself . You don't apply to a chassidish school if you aren't the same chassidus as the school . Don't apply to a challenging school if your kid doesn't have the grades for it. Do not apply to a school that is more to the right if it doesn't align with your hashkafos. Of course everyone wants their kid to be in the school that has a good name , but if isn't the right fit for you don't apply .


You are making assumptions and you are wrong.

One of my daughters ended up getting accepted into a school she was rejected from.
This was with pull and nudging.
She is doing very well there both academically and socially.
And it's a good fit from a hashkafic standpoint.

You are coming across as very ignorant and haughty.

There is no perfect fit for any child-nobody can determine whether a child is a good fit or not unless the child is given a chance.

There is also no school that consists of only A students.
Every school has some academically weak students in it. There are resources in every school to help students who need extra help.
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princessleah




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 5:55 pm
I don't understand something. Is there really such a huge problem of parents sending their kids to vastly inappropriate in hashkafa schools?

Is a mom who wants to come to pick-up in jeans and a tank top applying her kid to a chassidshe school? Is a dad who works as a writer for a sitcom sending his daughter to a BY? Or is a strict Yeshivish kollel member sending his kids to a co-ed MO high school?

Or are we talking about more subtle, nuanced differences, like own vs. not own a TV, internet vs. non-internet? You wouldn't be able to open up enough schools to accommodate everyone's specific combination of what they do/don't do/wear/don't wear. Having some flexibility is ok.

I do agree that if you choose a specific school, you should obey their rules-- you know what you're getting yourself into!
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 6:14 pm
I didn't read through the whole thread, but a few points based on my experiences:

1) As a teacher, I've seen many students in schools that aren't the right fit for them, either hashkafically (really to either extreme) or learning wise- some schools can't provide the right supports for a child's specific needs.

2) We also have threads of parents complaining about homework. Basic idea. Bigger classes = less individualized attention = parents have to pick up more of the slack at home. Schools do run out of space, or don't want classes of 30 kids, because kids learn better in more reasonably sized classes.

3) I went to a very academic seminary. Someone in my dorm was accepted conditionally- meaning she was really not academically strong enough for the school, but they agreed to take her if she was tutored for the rest of senior year etc. She did not have a sem experience, instead just spent the whole time stressing herself out trying to keep up her grade. Not every school is for every child.
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amother
Gray


 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 6:30 pm
amother wrote:
I didn't read through the whole thread, but a few points based on my experiences:

1) As a teacher, I've seen many students in schools that aren't the right fit for them, either hashkafically (really to either extreme) or learning wise- some schools can't provide the right supports for a child's specific needs.

Most BY schools are not that differential in terms of hashkafic values.

There is no perfect fit for every child. Sometimes the fit has to be just good enough.

2) We also have threads of parents complaining about homework. Basic idea. Bigger classes = less individualized attention = parents have to pick up more of the slack at home. Schools do run out of space, or don't want classes of 30 kids, because kids learn better in more reasonably sized classes.

Since when do high schools teachers provide individual attention?

3) I went to a very academic seminary. Someone in my dorm was accepted conditionally- meaning she was really not academically strong enough for the school, but they agreed to take her if she was tutored for the rest of senior year etc. She did not have a sem experience, instead just spent the whole time stressing herself out trying to keep up her grade. Not every school is for every child.

We're not talking about seminary level here. If she had a stressful experience for one-year, so what. Maybe the hashkafic takeaway was worth it for her.
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Ravenclaw




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 20 2019, 7:01 pm
princessleah wrote:
I don't understand something. Is there really such a huge problem of parents sending their kids to vastly inappropriate in hashkafa schools?

Is a mom who wants to come to pick-up in jeans and a tank top applying her kid to a chassidshe school? Is a dad who works as a writer for a sitcom sending his daughter to a BY? Or is a strict Yeshivish kollel member sending his kids to a co-ed MO high school?

Or are we talking about more subtle, nuanced differences, like own vs. not own a TV, internet vs. non-internet? You wouldn't be able to open up enough schools to accommodate everyone's specific combination of what they do/don't do/wear/don't wear. Having some flexibility is ok.

I do agree that if you choose a specific school, you should obey their rules-- you know what you're getting yourself into!


I was about to write this. Thank you.
People know more or less where they belong. They only end up sending to places where they don’t belong because they are rejected from the places where they would have fit in.
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