Philippines measles death toll

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amother

Wheat

Sun, Feb 24 2019, 4:03 pm

Frumwithallergies wrote:

amother wrote:
'We have a healthcare system that provides vaccinations. If vaccinations are abolished, your good hygiene and nutrition won't save you from measles, and yes, the stats would be exactly the same as the Philippines.'

'What a ridiculously uneducated post.'

On the contrary. Amother seashell is absolutely correct. Communicable diseases which are airborne are just that, very difficult to eradicate without a vaccine.

As taken from a medical website (UpToDate.com):
'transmission occurs via person-person contact as well as airborne spread. Infectious droplets from the respiratory secretions of a patient with measles can remain airborne for up to 2 hours. Therefore, the illness may be transmitted in public spaces, even in the absence of person-to-person contact......the period of maximum contagiousness is estimated to be from 5 days before the appearance of rash to four days afterward. (SSPE is not contagious, and someone affected cannot transmit the measles virus'.

So, to reiterate, good 'hygiene' and basic first world healthcare in and of themselves are worthless without vaccines.

You're 100% right about the fact that measles is highly contagious and airborne. I was responding to her statement that our stats would be the same as in third world countries where the death rates are very high. Proper hygiene and basic first world healthcare don't do much to stop the spreading of measles but it plays a tremendous role in the mortality rate which is much less (if any at all). Proper hygiene and healthcare might not save one from contracting the measles but it will definitely play a role in their relatively easy recovery.

southernbubby

Sun, Feb 24 2019, 4:12 pm

The person who died of measles in the US in 2015 was immunosuppressed. If vaccines were to disappear, that number of fatalities would probably rise despite good nutrition and hygiene due to the number of cancer patients and others with inadequate immune systems.

amother

Ecru

Sun, Feb 24 2019, 4:13 pm

amother wrote:

We can't compare statistics of developed countries to developing or undeveloped countries.

Lol
I’m rolling lol
I live in a poor country.
Every once in a while the government makes a vaccination day. Everyone, even the most illiterate citizen that lives in a slum, waits by the line at the clinics. Not even a question.
Do u know who doesn’t vaccinate? Some intellectual potheads.

amother

Wheat

Sun, Feb 24 2019, 4:18 pm

amother wrote:

Just proves how vaccinations are not the be all and end all to good health. In fact, with vaccinations in poor countries the death rates are still way higher because the only thing that changes is the vaccination rate, not the hygiene, nutrition or proper healthcare.

The unvaccinated intellectual potheads you are referring to have a higher chance of survival from illness than the vaccinated people in the slums, because of factors other than vaccines.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Feb 24 2019, 4:32 pm

amother wrote:

If society regresses back to the way things were in the early 1900s (I.e. no vaccinations), we will be right alongside those undeveloped countries.

This is absolutely correct because viruses such as measles are not treated with antibiotics and personal hygiene has nothing to do with measles.

Until the measles vaccines everyone came down with the measles including kids living in middle class homes with indoor plumbing and what was then considered to be state of the art medical care.

They were hardly the kind of horrendous living conditions which foster diseases spread by unclean water like dysentery or cholera.

People accepted that a certain percentage of children would have permanent damage from childhood diseases. Parents were so grateful for antibiotics which DID prevent a lot of deaths and permanent damage from childhood diseases.

It's really a shame that one English doctor is responsible for so much damage to the health care system - it's also a shame that vaccines have been so successful until the current movement by ignorant people that people don't realize what a scourge these diseases were - and are now starting to be again.

amother

Wheat

Sun, Feb 24 2019, 4:48 pm

amother wrote:

The amount of misinformation in one little paragraph.. You seem to know very little about the topic at hand beyond what the pharmaceuticals have sold you. Oh well, they need people like you..

Frumwithallergies

Sun, Feb 24 2019, 4:50 pm

amother wrote:

[/b]

The amount of misinformation in one little paragraph.. You seem to know very little about the topic at hand beyond what the pharmaceuticals have sold you. Oh well, they need people like you..

amother

Apricot

Sun, Feb 24 2019, 5:26 pm

amother wrote:

[/b]

The amount of misinformation in one little paragraph.. You seem to know very little about the topic at hand beyond what the pharmaceuticals have sold you. Oh well, they need people like you..

I'm assuming that you have no medical degree, nor have the intensive knowledge needed to properly decipher medical research, but yet you seem to pride yourself with the selective information you've carefully filtered out with your biased perspective.

And yet.... when you need medical assistance you seek it from the very same institution that you are lording over.

(ETA - this is not so much directed at you personally, rather to all of the like-minded members of the group.)

youngishbear

Sun, Feb 24 2019, 6:05 pm

I love how the people who rely on our superior healthcare system to keep mortality rates low during measles outbreaks scoff at the recommendations made by experts within the very same healthcare system.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Feb 24 2019, 7:41 pm

amother wrote:

[/b]

The amount of misinformation in one little paragraph.. You seem to know very little about the topic at hand beyond what the pharmaceuticals have sold you. Oh well, they need people like you..

Such a condescending ill informed post and yet you post without stating exactly what "misinformation" was stated

If you are going to state that a post is a font of misinformation, you should make the effort to state exactly what that information consists of as I would assume you would want to correct the record. wondering

amother

Coffee

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 12:09 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

I think the Japanese and Chinese have figured it out. To westerners the hospital masks look creepy, because we read faces so much. Most Asian people value their privacy AND their health, so the masks are not considered weird.

I have a friend who wears a mask every time she has to fly somewhere, and people always want to move seats away from her because they think she's contagious. She actually has a severely damaged immune system, and the slightest cold could put her in the hospital. (She also wipes down every touchable surface around her seat with alcohol wipes before she sits down.)

Nevertheless Japan is also dealing with an outbreak

WhatFor

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 12:38 am

amother wrote:

It's true that vaccines aren't a ticket to absolute health. For example, I wouldn't spend a day without sunscreen in the Mediterranean sun expecting to be protected from the sun's UV rays just because I got a measles vaccine.

However, I would expect to have a significantly lower chance of catching measles if I recently got a measles vaccine. So I wouldn't be like, nah, I'm gonna pass on the measles vaccine because it won't protect me from the sun when I go to Eilat tomorrow.

If you told your kid to tie their shoes so they won't trip and fall in school, and they were like, "yeah, but tying my shoes won't prevent me from getting mosquito bites at recess, so nope, I'm not tying my shoes." Would you respond, "that's sound logic sweetie. You've made a compelling argument and you should absolutely not bother tying your shoes. Here, take your lunch, and have a great day!"

Sara111

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 5:50 am

Before I write my response, let's remember to please keep the discussion civil and polite. That would mean - no name calling and the like.

Every child that dies from measles is a tragedy.
Every child that dies or is permanently injured by the vaccine is also a tragedy.
It's all about the numbers, ladies. So the question has to be: Who dies more, children from the vaccine, or children from the measles? At what point does the illness become safer than the vaccine? Let's take a look at the numbers.

In the USA in 1963, before the vaccine, there were 3 deaths from measles. In under developed countries the death from measles is between 200 and 400 times greater. That is because improved NUTRITION in developed countries is what helps a child's immune system deal successfully with the illness.

There's a special court system set up by the US Govt. to compensate vaccine damaged children. VAERS - Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System accounts for only 10% of reported cases (FDA statistic). As of 2016 over $4 billion has been awarded to vaccine damaged children. This is a small minority of people who willingly went through these vaccine courts and succeeded. We should also bear in mind that the US Govt. calls vaccines “unavoidably unsafe”.

As of November 30, 2018, there have been more than 93,179 reports of measles vaccine reactions, hospitalizations, injuries and deaths following measles vaccinations made to the federal Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS), including 459 related deaths, 6,936 hospitalizations, and 1,748 related disabilities.

As of January 2, 2019, there have been 1,258 claims filed so far in the federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) for 82 deaths and 1,176 injuries that occurred after measles vaccination. Of that number, the U.S. Court of Claims administering the VICP has compensated 483 children and adults, who have filed claims for measles vaccine injury. (Info. taken from the National Vaccine Information Center).

From the manufacturer of the vaccine itself:
Serious complications reported by Merck in the ProQuad(MMR-V) product insert during vaccine post-marketing surveillance includes:

measles;
atypical measles;
vaccine strain varicella;
varicella-like rash;
herpes zoster;
herpes simplex;
pneumonia and respiratory infection;
pneumonitis;
bronchitis;
epididymitis;
cellulitis;
skin infection;
subacute sclerosing panencephalitis;
aseptic meningitis;
thrombocytopenia;
aplastic anemia (anemia due to the bone marrow’s inability to produce platelets, red and white blood cells);
lymphadenitis (inflammation of the lymph nodes);
anaphylaxis including related symptoms of peripheral, angioneurotic and facial emema;
agitation;
ocular palsies;
necrotizing retinitis (inflammation of the eye);
nerve deafness;
optic and retrobulbar neuritis (inflammation of the optic nerve);
Bell’s palsy (sudden but temporary weakness of one half of the face);
cerebrovascular accident (stroke);
acute disseminated encephalomyelitis;
measles inclusion body encephalitis;
transverse myelitis;
encephalopathy;
Guillain-Barré syndrome;
syncope (fainting);
tremor;
dizziness;
paraesthesia;
febrile seizure;
afebrile seizures or convulsions;
polyneuropathy (dysfunction of numerous peripheral nerves of the body);
Stevens-Johnson syndrome;
Henoch-Schönlein purpura;
acute hemorrhagic edema of infancy;
erythema multiforme;
panniculitis;
arthritis;
death

It's up to each person to assess the gain versus the risks.
Everyone must have the CHOICE to make whatever decision they want to make.
That is basic freedom of rights. They are not endangering anyone else with their decision. But that's another topic.

imasoftov

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 6:32 am

Sara111 wrote:

Before I write my response, let's remember to please keep the discussion civil and polite. That would mean - no name calling and the like.

You are a murderer and I don't care if this offends you, that's not an unfortunate side-effect, it's my intent. This site is a disease vector.

Quote:

They are not endangering anyone else with their decision.

That is precisely what you are doing.

amother

Beige

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 6:39 am

chestnut wrote:

Low death numbers wouldn't be so low any more if it were someone's child that she knew

If one neshama in 10000 is dead chas vesholom its already way too much.

southernbubby

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 7:25 am

Apparently winning or losing in vaccine court can't be considered proof of an adverse reaction. Unfortunately there is no absolute proof with many cases of possible vaccine injury. At this point, vaccine advocates and educators realize that it is wrong and futile to call the apparent injuries "coincidence" and that they must admit that some people truly are injured, however, the other reality is that the chances of catching a VPD are much higher without vaccines, regardless of other factors, and carelessly passing the disease to a vulnerable person is not tolerable in today's world.

amother

Blue

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 10:59 am

youngishbear wrote:

It's called being an informed consumer. Emergency medicine is a strength of the western medical model. Preventing disease, not so much.

ora_43

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 11:31 am

Sara111 wrote:

Gosh, who to believe - the random stranger online, or the Journal of Infectious Diseases?

Quote:

By the late 1950s, even before the introduction of measles vaccine, measles-related deaths and case fatality rates in the United States had decreased markedly, presumably as a result of improvement in health care and nutrition. From 1956 to 1960, an average of 450 measles-related deaths were reported each year (∼1 death/ 1000 reported cases), compared with an average of 5300 measles-related deaths during 1912–1916 (26 deaths/ 1000 reported cases).

So... a little more than 3, even in a first world country.

That's not even getting into the permanent injuries.

ora_43

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 11:32 am

amother wrote:

It's called being an informed consumer. Emergency medicine is a strength of the western medical model. Preventing disease, not so much.

In what version of reality do Western countries experience the same rates of infectious disease as third world countries?

ora_43

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 11:40 am

amother wrote:

Hmm. You are correct numbers are very low.
So does that make the measles no big deal?
It is closer to the .5% mentioned by non Vader’s. They sound correct.
But the numbers still sound so horrible.
So many deaths. Even if it’s a small percentage.

Yup. This is a good example of how statistics can be used to argue for dumb things.

"Just 1%" sounds low. Heck, let's even say (somewhat optimistically) that the death toll would be a mere 1 in 1,000 in a country like America. That's just 0.1%! Almost nothing!

Or, in terms of human lives, around 10,000 fatalities per decade.

The numbers don't sound so small anymore, right?

It's the health equivalent of pricing something at $3.99, or labeling water as "cholesterol free." Sounds nice, but only until you think about it.

Last edited by ora_43 on Mon, Feb 25 2019, 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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