Philippines measles death toll

youngishbear

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 8:41 am

amother wrote:

It's called being an informed consumer. Emergency medicine is a strength of the western medical model. Preventing disease, not so much.

Last time I checked vaccines were a method for preventing disease.

If you'd say western medicine does not promote wellness, I would agree. The focus is on finding cures, treatments, and preventive interventions.

amother

Copper

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 9:48 am

Let's think about that 1 in a thousand. How many babies are born in the frum community each year? In NYC its probably about 10,000 at least. Imagine 10 families you know each year burying a child due to measles ch"v. Your friends. Your kid's friends and classmates.

Why is it if a kid has lice we go crazy and exclude the kid from school and wont let our kids play in that kid's house, even though lice is an annoying but harmless infestation? But when it comes to preventable diseases, people are "meh."

amother

Coffee

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 10:50 am

With all our good hygienie and nutrition why are healthy American children still dying from the flu?
How does that differ from the measles?

amother

Apricot

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 3:20 pm

amother wrote:

With all our good hygienie and nutrition why are healthy American children still dying from the flu?
How does that differ from the measles?

Simple - the flu virus mutates every few months making it impossible to have long term immunity for it. The measles virus doesn't do that.

Sara111

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 6:52 pm

"You are a murderer and I don't care if this offends you, that's not an unfortunate side-effect, it's my intent."

LOL.
No, I'm not insulted, just feel pity towards you that it seems you do not want to educate yourself.

But just curious, and wonder if you will give me an honest answer: Why is it not murder when there's a certain number of babies that die from the vaccine (which is actually more than die from the measles)? Why do you not feel any sorrow towards families that have had to deal with that? Death is one of the possible adverse events listed on the package insert of the vaccine.

Probably because you don't see those numbers splashed over the media every day.
Probably because you've bought into the media hype about the measles "epidemics" and that measles is very dangerous. The numbers just don't support this, though.

Read "Dissolving Illusions" by Dr. Suzanne Humphries to understand the history of diseases and vaccines. You'll never look at the issue in the same way again.

amother

Wheat

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 7:01 pm

Sara111 wrote:

Wait, now somebody will chime in to say what a 'quack' she is because her research led her to different conclusions than them.

amother

Scarlet

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 7:34 pm

amother wrote:

Wait, now somebody will chime in to say what a 'quack' she is because her research led her to different conclusions than them.

I'm waiting for someone to say she's a quack for even doing her own research when all Drs and the entire medical world believe vaccines save lives.

I'm waiting for someone to say she's a quack for doing research when vaccines successfully eliminated disease that were rampantg and costed devastating results only a generation or two ago.

I'm waiting for someone to say she's a quack for refusing to listen to anyone educated.

amother

Scarlet

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 7:39 pm

amother wrote:

Wait, now somebody will chime in to say what a 'quack' she is because her research led her to different conclusions than them.

Best of all I'm waiting for her to post 35 pages of "facts" and "studies" that hold zero weight in medical world

I'm waiting for her to say she doesn't listen to dr-since her "research" is way more through than a Dr. 10 years of schooling and daily practice of medicine

I'm waiting for all the anti-vaxers to attack me. Too bad I work and won't have time to respond

Sara111

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 8:01 pm

amother wrote:

I'm waiting for her to say she doesn't listen to dr-since her "research" is way more through than a Dr. 10 years of schooling and daily practice of medicine

I've heard many doctors say that their education about vaccines was being told the list of vaccines given, for what diseases, when to give and that was the end of the story. Many doctors who have done independent research and studied further than what they were told about it in medical school have come to different conclusions.

Some interesting words from Dr. Jayne L. M. Donegan: "We were told that other diseases, such as scarlet fever, rheumatic fever, typhus, typhoid, cholera and so on, for which a vaccine is not given, diminished both in incidence and mortality due to better social conditions.

You would think .. . that some of us would have asked, "But if deaths from these diseases decreased due to improved social conditions, mightn't the ones for which there are vaccines also have decreased at the same time, for the same reasons?"

The medical curriculum is so overloaded with information that you just have to learn what you hear, as you hear it: non-vaccinatable diseases into the social conditions box and vaccinatable diseases into the vaccine box and onto the next subject."

amother

Apricot

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 8:34 pm

Sara111 wrote:

The medical curriculum is so overloaded with information that you just have to learn what you hear, as you hear it: non-vaccinatable diseases into the social conditions box and vaccinatable diseases into the vaccine box and onto the next subject."

I'm curious as to what medical curriculum you have studied. I'm assuming that since you're so confident in your statements, that you would only be bringing substantiated evidence that you've personally verified. I'm assuming you wouldn't be trying to persuade others to your point of view, based on a few strangers' statements or personal opinions.

ora_43

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 8:55 pm

Sara111 wrote:

But just curious, and wonder if you will give me an honest answer: Why is it not murder when there's a certain number of babies that die from the vaccine (which is actually more than die from the measles)? Why do you not feel any sorrow towards families that have had to deal with that? Death is one of the possible adverse events listed on the package insert of the vaccine.

I can't help but notice that you're ignoring the numbers I helpfully googled for you earlier in this... let's go ahead and optimistically call it a 'conversation.'

Seriously - are you suggesting that there's a massive conspiracy to report 400-500 deaths a year from the measles pre-vaccine (and 1,500-2,000 cases of permanent mental disability), when in fact there were under 5 children a year killed?

Or are you suggesting that more than 2,000 children are killed or permanently disabled by vaccines every year today?

ora_43

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 9:09 pm

amother wrote:

Wait, now somebody will chime in to say what a 'quack' she is because her research led her to different conclusions than them.

You really don't get how this works, huh?

People who disagree with her don't need to criticize her personally. We have a little thing called evidence. It doesn't matter if she's deliberately dishonest or if she's completely honest and well-intentioned and just happens to disagree with 99.9% of experts. What makes her wrong are the decades of scientific evidence that fail to support her claims. What makes her wrong is that the studies she quotes are either notoriously inaccurate, or don't say what she claims they do.

That's the whole idea with science, that we can split conclusions into "supported by the evidence" and "not supported by the evidence." There are fields where different conclusions are legitimate as long as you can make a convincing-sounding argument for them, but biology isn't one of them.

amother

Puce

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 10:16 pm

amother wrote:

You are ignorant for making this statement. Perhaps even taking a simple psychology class would lead you to an easy conclusion. I asked my professor questions backing up statements made and I was told it is deviating from class material and this is what the books say and is credible. I am sorry but if you explain something in class and I want to understand why in order to understand the science conclusion then I am deserving of an answer. But no, they dont have the answers. They were taught one way and they know what they read - not to think outside the box.

This is not just one professor. This happens a lot. People have so much work in college and many are there to pass so they learn what is in the book and have a nice day. I personally dont agree with a lot of things I learn because the science "backing" it is too vague to prove accuracy to me.

Now tell me something. When you take a medicine for year because it is "safe" because everyone else takes it, what do you say when it gets recalled years later? I think iit was tylenol for babies that just had this issue. This is scary stuff. Same is with a vaccine in Israel that was proven mishandled/damaged due to a crack in many vials. This is information we only know now through media. Imagine how much you will only find out years later.

For example a resturant. You go there for years and dont REALLY know what goes on in the back. You get served food and assume all is fine and dandy health wise and/or kashrus wise until proven otherwise. This is SO common and there IS hashgacha all the time! Now take vaccine indsutry. They dont need supervision, testing or anything. You trust them? Enjoy your day. Stop bashing those who know what this quackery is all about.

You know the saying, "sometimes its better not to know". Sometimes I wish I didnt know all the information but in the end of the day, this information leads me to do what is best for my family. Hashem created our body to fight the NATURAL occurrences. Vaccine toxicity is NOT natural. Measles is.

amother

Puce

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 10:27 pm

ora_43 wrote:

You clearly read whatever you want to see. That poster earlier mentioned hoe many more dealths and adverse reactions there are from the vaccine vs the measles and yet, you go back and dwell on the even 0.1% measles related dealths is so much. I wish you and your family well.

Sara111

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 2:42 am

ora_43 wrote:

I'll quote from Dr. Suzanne Humphries's book:
"The official 1960 number of deaths from measles in the U.S. was recorded as 380, with the population during that year at 180,671,000. This equaled a mortality rate for measles of 0.24 per 100,000. Statistics from 1963 show that, relative to many other causes of death, measles was extremely low. . . When the measles vaccine was licensed in 1963, the measles death in Massachusetts had reached zero. Similarly, in Washington State, as in other locations throughout the Western world, the measles death rate had been steadily trending toward zero for years."

Take a look at the graph below (if I've uploaded it correctly), maybe it will be easier to understand. See how many deaths show up in the few years before the vaccine was introduced.

It is not me suggesting that more than 2,000 children are killed or permanently disabled by vaccines every year today. These are incidents reported to VAERS - the CDC's Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, which according to the FDA, captures only 10% of the incidences. Most events are not reported, and the criteria of events that can be reported is very narrow, so we really don't know the real number.

ora_43

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 4:31 am

amother wrote:

Why would you assume that because the professor didn't want to drop everything they were doing to explain something to you that had nothing to do with the course you were in, they must not know the answer?

It's extremely reasonable for a teacher to put limits on what they're going to explain in a given class. Especially if this happened during the actual lecture, but even if it didn't.

You do deserve answers. But just because someone isn't offering to teach you the information doesn't mean it's being withheld from you. Try google scholar, try the library, look up the sources in the back of the textbook, take a more in-depth course that does cover that material, see if the professor would be willing to discuss it during office hours...

ora_43

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 4:39 am

Sara111 wrote:

So we can agree that the deaths from measles were much closer to 400 than to 3. Good start.

Now let's talk math. Just because something is declining, doesn't mean it is approaching zero. Measles deaths dropped to around 1-2 per 1,000 cases, but that doesn't mean they were, or are, going to drop below that without further advances in medicine.

And in fact, 1-2 deaths per 1,000 cases is about what we (sadly) see today even in the western world, in those places where large parts of the population are not vaccinated and outbreaks sometimes occur.

Quote:

You know these things are google-able? It takes about 10 seconds to see that there are far fewer than 2,000 serious vaccinate-related vaccine adverse events reported per year, let alone events that have to do with the measles vaccine, specifically.

ETA - also, if you're going to classify hospitalization as "serious" when it comes to vaccine adverse events (as per VAERS), you have to call hospitalization "serious" when it comes to measles, too, or the numbers will mean nothing.

imasoftov

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 4:55 am

Sara111 wrote:

more blather

I want nothing from you but silence, but I do hope that someone interviews Yael some day and asks her to explain why she bans some topics but allows this one. Have the Women of the Wall or their opponents killed any chidren? Does Chabad messianism threaten lives?

The followup question will be to ask her for her personal position on each of these issues.

southernbubby

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 4:58 am

Regarding VAERS, if Grandma gets a flu shot and has a heart attack a week later, it gets reported as a vaccine reaction, even if Grandma was a heart attack waiting to happen.

Sara111

Wed, Feb 27 2019, 1:31 am

Ora_43 writes: "And in fact, 1-2 deaths per 1,000 cases is about what we (sadly) see today even in the western world, in those places where large parts of the population are not vaccinated and outbreaks sometimes occur."

I don't know where you got the 1 death per 1,000 cases. It's much more like 1 in 10,000. Measles outbreaks occur even in populations with 99% vaccination rates (like China). There's never going to be herd immunity because the vaccine wanes over time and most adults don't have immunity to measles anymore. Getting sick with the disease naturally provides life-long immunity that the vaccine doesn't. The vaccine can also shed (I.e. spread) the disease.

In third-world countries where large parts of the population are not vaccinated, children die much more from other things than from measles, and when they have the measles, of course they are more likely to die because they are nutritionally deficient. So there is no comparison. It would make a lot more sense to provide such children with clean water, better nutrition and access to medical care than to give them vaccines.

ora_43 wrote:

I'm sorry that you don't take vaccine injuries seriously. Not surprising, I guess, as it is definitely covered up and hidden from the public. The scope is enormous. Makes sense when vaccine ingredients include things like aluminium, a known neuro-toxin, mercury, the 2nd most toxic substance on earth, formaldehyde, a known carcinogen, DNA from animals and fetuses and more. Makes sense when vaccines can re-program the immune system to not be able to fight off acute diseases/infections but to regress into chronic ones. Or to start attacking itself with autoimmune diseases as is pointed out by Dr. Yehuda Shoenfeld, a world-renown expert on autoimmune diseases.

The US gives the most vaccines to children in their first year (and after) than any other country in the world and also has a very high mortality rate of babies in their first year - the 34th in fact. That means 33 other countries have less mortality in the first year than the U.S. If that's not shameful, what is. The countries that have the least amount of vaccines in the first year have the lowest mortality rates in the first year. This is very clearly shown in Dr. Neil Miller's study - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p.....0075/

America's children have never been sicker with chronic illnesses, autoimmune illnesses, neurological disabilities, allergies, etc. When groups of un-vaccinated children were studied by independent researchers (not by the CDC which refuses to conduct such a study) they were found to be so much more healthier all round than their vaccinated counterparts that it just boggles the mind.

A vaccine is a medical intervention with many risks and just like you can choose whether you want any other kind of medical intervention or treatment, every parent must be able to choose if they want this medical intervention done to their healthy child or not. I'm not American, nor do I live in the U.S. but it astounds me that in a supposedly free country, the government and many people think they can inject substances into people without their consent. If that's not a basic breach of human rights, what is.

The vaccines are made by the same drug companies that pay out billions in lawsuits for drugs they made (sometimes knowingly) that harmed people where fraud and deception is regularly exposed. The only product they cannot be directly sued for is vaccines, following the 1986 law. So why do we suddenly trust them with a product that is mandated for everyone and that is very profitable. The shameful truths about this industry are constantly being exposed.

Good luck to you all and may you all have healthy children. May you never have a vaccine-injured child (you may never make the connection anyway and if you do, you most likely will be told it's a "coincidence") or a child with a chronic or autoimmune illness (not a high chance as 50% of American children today have that). May you never have a child with cancer and be told by their oncologist that they have to stay away from recently vaccinated children because children vaccinated with live viruses can shed the disease for up to six weeks after they receive the vaccination (as happened to me). Yes, fancy that. An immune-suppressed child at risk from vaccinated kids.

Understand that the issues are much more complex and run much deeper than what the health authorities want you to know. It is up to you to dig out the truth. And if you don't want to investigate, then at least respect every parent's individual choice and rights and allow the topic to be discussed without censorship, without intimidation and without shaming.

I hope the information I've shared has at least enlightened some of you.