Only child says she no longer believes

amother

White

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 2:21 pm

I'm at a loss . My only child has always been a very difficult child. The super defiant type of person who doesn't listen to anyone or get along with anyone in a real life relationship. On psychiatric medication etc.

We send her to a school that caters to girls like her and we thought she was improving there. Last night she dropped the bombshell.

She has gotten involved in all sorts of OTD Facebook groups and she no longer believes Torah is divine. We trued talking to her but she wasn't listening. It will backfire if she speaks to anyone because she won't listen. When we pointed out to her that some of her arguments against Torah are based on very black and white mistakes which can easily be verified in a non-Jewish encyclopedia she wasn't even willing look at one.

Both me and my husband think that isn't really rebelling against Torah as much as she is rebelling against the whole world. (She also says she want to drop out of school) She is only willing to see a non-Jewish therapist who will accept that she has a right to go OTD

I'm beyond shattered. What should I do?

amother

Aqua

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 2:25 pm

I'm so sorry for your pain.

Do you think it might help you to separate the issues in your mind? Like your pain is one issue that you need to deal with. Your daughter's beliefs are her own issues since you can't force anyone to believe anything. So you can still love her and care for her, but maybe acknowledging the separation of issues will help you to deal with it? I don't know... Forgive me if I'm saying something that doesn't help you, I don't want to add to your hurt feelings.... Lots of hugs to you.

PinkFridge

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 2:38 pm

amother wrote:

Both me and my husband think that isn't really rebelling against Torah as much as she is rebelling against the whole world. (She also says she want to drop out of school) She is only willing to see a non-Jewish therapist who will accept that she has a right to go OTD

I'm beyond shattered. What should I do?

Where does she want to go instead? Is she dropping out of productive life, or religion?
What does she do that gives her positive validation and a feeling of accomplishment?

Sorry to be asking such random questions.
Let me go back.
First of all, hugs.
Second of all, I guess I'm echoing aqua. This must be so disconcerting. But separate issues. Try to be analytical.
And you don't have to do this on your own. Get some IRL support. Who steered you to this school? Have you had any ongoing support?
Hugs again!

imasinger

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 2:48 pm

Hugs, that's hard.

I say find her that non Jewish therapist. The best you can find.

A really good one will let her start right where she is, and help her (and you) figure out the real issues. And be respectful of a Torah life as well.

Right now, it sounds like she's not clear on what her real problems are. I doubt they begin with emunah, I'm guessing that's the excuse to challenge you. That's not to say her position isn't real. Just that it is likely not at the bottom of her actions and reactions. As you say, a rebellion against the world.

imorethanamother

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 2:53 pm

amother wrote:

I like what this commenter said.

I can't even imagine what you're going through. It might be worthwhile to avoid fighting about the belief issue in the first place. Adolescents in general tend to want to die on the cross for belief systems that don't entirely make sense, and they're fighting to have the fight, not to be proven wrong. (Adults aren't all that different).

It sounds like this child is going through a lot in general. Defiance, being in a school for kids who are different than mainstream, being on medication. The only thing you can do for a child's yiras shamayim is daven and hope for the best. For the child's welfare though, that's more important. It's important for them to feel loved and cared for, to be valued and reminded of all the good she can offer the world. For a child with serious issues, believe me I know that this is easier said than done.

But as the comment above specifies, try not to conflate the two issues. Your child's acceptance, schooling, difficult behavior, and managing her mental illness are your primary focus right now.

amother

Scarlet

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 4:10 pm

Where do you live? There are some non-Jewish therapists who do believe in G-d and try to work with OTD teens to stick to their religion. There is a David Abrams who works at one of the centers in Monsey, New York. (He is not Jewish, but he is very good at what he does.)

ra_mom

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 4:28 pm

OP that is so incredibly painful. Crying

It's so confusing.
But this is really her soul crying out accept me unconditionally - I'm going to do crazy things and I'm desperate for you to accept me no matter what - this is how I need you to prove to me that you'll accept me no matter what I bring your way.

amother

Wine

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 4:32 pm

My daughter is on the way to being OTD.

I wonder if she went to the same school as yours.

We sent her to a Jewish therapist who claims her job is to promote the emotional well-being of my daughter, and not to get involved in hashkafos.

I'm not sure if all Jewish therapists have this approach.

amother

Amethyst

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 6:16 pm

I'm sorry you are going through this painful time. In support of what the other posters wrote, when I was feeling rejected by people, I really wanted to reject Hashem. She is doing this as part of her overall rebellion/feeling lousy...nothing to do with the facts or with religion. Spirituality in whatever form is considered a sign of good mental health.

simba

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 7:43 pm

amother wrote:

I would go with this method. The OTD path can quickly become a self-destructive one if religion is pushed.

Even though this is so painful as a parent you should try to validate her and build her emotional well being. This rebellion is more likely coming from a place of pain (self esteem, self worth) then theology.

Dont try to prove her theories wrong with intellectual discussion. That is not the root issue.
Embrace and support her without showing approval for her throwing off Yiddishkiet.

Much Hatzlacha

Laiya

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 8:29 pm

ra_mom wrote:

OP that is so incredibly painful. Crying

Very wise words.

OP, I can't imagine how painful this is. I'm not sure though, that you should try to argue with her or show her the flaws in her reasoning. She already knows your position. Try to flood her and your relationship with positivity, things you can both agree on.

pecan

Mon, Feb 25 2019, 8:47 pm

I just want to point out that when you are dealing with a child who is not mentally stable, than the focus should be on mental and emotional health. Not on frumkeit. I don't know how unstable mentally she is,but I think it's important to think about whether she sometimes gives mixed messages, whether she is consistent in her beliefs in general. I learned to take things with a grain of salt and to focus on the real reason she's behaving this way. What's causing this?
Btw, I highly recommend that you reach out and don't be embarrassed to ask anyone you can for help and resources. When it's about your child, the more you know and learn, the more you can take the good advice from the bad and help her.