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Anyone know this meat/dairy halacha?
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seeker




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 2:40 pm
YES, I sent a message to my LOR. Two of them actually. But no reply yet and I think this is a standard enough type of situation that should be covered in basic halacha, except I'm not very well-versed Sad

I accidentally used a fleishig knife to cut up half of an onion and fried it in a dairy frying pan. The knife and pan were both clean, and neither had been used for meat/dairy respectively for at least a few weeks.

Does anyone know what is the status of:
1. The fried onions
2. The frying pan
3. The remaining half a raw onion
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amother




Crimson


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 2:43 pm
I don't know the answer, but I listened to a shiur a while back where the Rov said that when he hears the words "I cut an onion with a fleishig/milchig knife" he always stops and says, "That was your first mistake." (Not trying to pin any blame.) He said we should really get in the habit of only using pareve equipment to cut, especially charif.
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ra_mom




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 2:45 pm
seeker wrote:
YES, I sent a message to my LOR. Two of them actually. But no reply yet and I think this is a standard enough type of situation that should be covered in basic halacha, except I'm not very well-versed Sad

I accidentally used a fleishig knife to cut up half of an onion and fried it in a dairy frying pan. The knife and pan were both clean, and neither had been used for meat/dairy respectively for at least a few weeks.

Does anyone know what is the status of:
1. The fried onions
2. The frying pan
3. The remaining half a raw onion

1. The fried onions may need to be thrown out
2. The frying pan may need to be kashered
3. The remaining half raw onion is fleishig
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amother




Lawngreen


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 2:46 pm
seeker wrote:
YES, I sent a message to my LOR. Two of them actually. But no reply yet and I think this is a standard enough type of situation that should be covered in basic halacha, except I'm not very well-versed Sad

I accidentally used a fleishig knife to cut up half of an onion and fried it in a dairy frying pan. The knife and pan were both clean, and neither had been used for meat/dairy respectively for at least a few weeks.

Does anyone know what is the status of:
1. The fried onions
2. The frying pan
3. The remaining half a raw onion


I’m not positive, but I think that if the utensils were not ben yomo (used within 24 hours), you’re technically fine. We just don’t practice that way l’chatchila. You probably should count the other half of the onion as fleishigs.

ETA the fried onions are probably not treif, but you shouldn’t put them in something fleishigs purposely.
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ra_mom




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 2:47 pm
The onion is sharp and therefore takes on the status of what it comes in contact with (the meat knife, the dairy pan).
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chicco




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 2:47 pm
The rest of the raw onion is fleish.

The fried onions are garbage, but the pan may be salvageable. Put it on the side until you hear from the Rav.
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amother




Lawngreen


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 2:49 pm
ra_mom wrote:
The onion is sharp and therefore takes on the status of what it comes in contact with (the meat knife, the dairy pan).


Yes, but I’m pretty sure there’s a difference between ben yomo and eino ben yomo. If they haven’t touched meat or milk in a while it may technically be okay.
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chicco




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 2:52 pm
amother wrote:
Yes, but I’m pretty sure there’s a difference between ben yomo and eino ben yomo. If they haven’t touched meat or milk in a while it may technically be okay.


Ben Yomo doesnt make a difference with a dvar charif like an onion. It may work for the frying pan though.
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bel




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 3:03 pm
Everything said is right like chicco said the pan wait for the rov to get back. because if there was less onion then the size of pan it could be ok but the rov has to figure it out.
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boogiebabe




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 3:15 pm
What RA_mom said.
This exact situation happened to me, 18 years ago. The Rav directed I do exactly that. It was a nonstick fry pan, so in the trash it went. I am pretty makpid about a Pareve Chef knife and paring knife for veggies.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 3:44 pm
Ask a Rov

But for conversation purpose
1 the fried onions garbage
2 The pan make leeben Kal with a blow torch

3 the onion cut it cdei klipa and your good
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goodmorning




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 3:57 pm
Was there oil between all pieces of the onion and the pan? If none of the onions came in direct contact with the pan (from the very beginning of the sauteing), then you can consider the pan okay. Better to discard the onions but b'sha'as hadchak, if you're desperate, you can use them (again, if there was oil).

Remaining half an onion is obviously fine but consider it fleishig.
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seeker




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 4:04 pm
Darn.

It was a nice ceramic nonstick pan and yes there was oil but not tons so there were probably onions touching pan.

Sounds like this may be more complicated than I thought, will continue to wait for answer from LOR.

I have always been very careful to keep my knives separate. What happened was this was an originally parve paring knife but once I left it on the counter while I was pan-grilling chicken or meat and the hot meaty oil splattered on the knife. I was told it was fleishig now and should probably have thrown it in the garbage at that point but it just became my new raw meat knife. Anyway I didn't have any others identical to it to get it confused with.

So now it was in the dish drying rack with several other utensils and knives, and I just wasn't looking when I took out a knife and started cutting onions. It didn't register until the onions were already mostly fried and I picked up the same knife to start slicing in veggies. Can't Believe It
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goodmorning




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 4:07 pm
I PM-ed you; if this is urgent for before Shabbos, I can put you in touch with my husband (who is the one who approved of my post Smile ). It's not really "standard enough," except to say that the pan is treif. If you need kulos, you need to speak to an actual rav.

If it's not urgent, wait till after Shabbos and speak to your LOR, obviously.
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seeker




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 4:13 pm
Yeah, it's not urgent. It was just going to be my lunch, in my favorite omelette pan. I don't "need" kulos but it would have been nice to hear that it was all good. Sigh.

Thanks for offering to help though! Heart
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trixx




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Mar 01 2019, 4:32 pm
The status of the half onion confuses me, I would just trash it.
I know there's no need halachically but if I were in doubt and waiting for a Rav to respond..
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Sat, Mar 02 2019, 12:04 pm
I've had to toss out good pans before. Sad

If you have to throw it out, it should be a kappara, and in that merit prevent you from burning dinner.
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Metukah




 
 
 


Post  Sat, Mar 02 2019, 3:01 pm
Happened to my sister recently. Fried onions treif and pan needed to be kashered.

Due to the issues with onions (davar Charif) I started using only parve knives for onions. Always.

Onions, garlic and lemons are only cut with parve knives in this house.
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seeker




 
 
 


Post  Sat, Mar 02 2019, 7:04 pm
Of course I only cut onions and garlic with parve knives. Except when I space out and don't look at which knife I picked up until too late.

Still waiting for continuation of email conversation with LOR but my stuff MIGHT be ok because I am pretty sure the knife was never really used with hot meat in the first place. But this is still pending.

Regarding the half onion that was still raw, I was told to cut off the cut surface and then the rest of the onion is fine. True it's just an onion, but I wouldn't do Bal tashchis unless there's a reason.
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amother




Lawngreen


Post  Sat, Mar 02 2019, 10:18 pm
seeker wrote:
Of course I only cut onions and garlic with parve knives. Except when I space out and don't look at which knife I picked up until too late.

Still waiting for continuation of email conversation with LOR but my stuff MIGHT be ok because I am pretty sure the knife was never really used with hot meat in the first place. But this is still pending.

Regarding the half onion that was still raw, I was told to cut off the cut surface and then the rest of the onion is fine. True it's just an onion, but I wouldn't do Bal tashchis unless there's a reason.


I’m confused...why would there be any issue with that onion? If it was cut with a F knife it would be a F onion. It had no contact with the M pan. Unless you want to cut off the surface and keep it pareve.
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