Son wants spend same $ on bar mitzva as everyone else

amother

Ecru

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 5:09 pm

boysrus wrote:

tell your son that 'boysrus' spends maximum $2000 on a weekday barmitzva seudah for her sons. Tell him that some (like me) spend less. and others spend more.
And it is nt the amount of money spent that makes the simcha simchadig!
mazal tov in advance.
your son is the same age as one of my sons. we will make our bar mitzvahs at the same time Smile

Just curious if that was it or if Shabbos also cost anything extra?

Weekday will cost less then 1000. But I can’t figure out how to get Shabbos less then 4K. Need to feed lots of family coming from out of town. (Kiddush, Hall, waiters, food, paper goods, hostess gifts, etc).

I’ve already spent close to 3k on teffilin, Tallis, bags, hat, blazer and suit.

amother

Linen

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 5:31 pm

Showing empathy means saying " I'm sorry we can't get you what you want it's difficult not having what all your friends have. I myself would really like to get a new sheitel but right now I'm using the one I have because they are very expensive and I'd rather we have a warm home good food and all the other things we need. I know how disappointing it can be to not be able to get what everyone else seems to be able to afford but tatty and I believe it's important to only buy what we have enough money for and not go into debt CV. I know you are disappointed and I wish we could do something bigger it's hard for me to see you so sad."

Then can come the discussion about what is most important for him to have.

Instead you are coming off as feeling attacked by him. This is really not personal don't make it that way.

thunderstorm

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 5:52 pm

amother wrote:

I agree with this a lot. One other point I didn't make upthread, was that my DS mentioned that we are such a "yeshivish family". He meant it in a deragatory way, insinuating that we are too cheap and plain. At that point I realized that he really does want something , but he wants something that will make him feel special. But he wasn't feeling that it was enough. So DH and I started calling halls and caterers (after I prepared all the food for the Seuda already) just to see if maybe we should make it in a hall to make him feel like it's not a simple affair in our home. We got a quote for a hall and caterer that was about $1,000 more than we were spending and we were willing to go into $1,000 debt if it meant it was a huge difference to him. We told him that he still had a choice between having a catered affair and a homemade one in our home . We told him that it was HIS Bar Mitzvah and we wanted him to be happy with the arrangements. Once we gave him these two options he realized that we really cared and that it was about HIM only , and he on his own said he'd prefer it in our home with less pressure and more of a relaxed environment. So we were willing to bend even though I'm out of a job, we are struggling financially more than we have in years . But to this particular son we knew we need to bend a bit and be willing to extend ourselves and show him that all we care about is him and that our preferences weren't as important. It's amazing how he suddenly was all cool with everything we were doing and when we asked him if the set up looked "yeshivish" he blushed and said "No, it's very fancy"

rowo

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 6:09 pm

I really don't think it's about the number of dollars.
Kids want to feel special and important. Bar mitzvah is a huge milestone for them.
He sees his friends have a fuss made over them and probably wants to feel like there's a fuss being made for his bar mitzvah too.

I think thunderstorms example with her son illustrates it beautifully.
A lavish event doesn't necessarily mean more to a kid. It's about them feeling respected, important and taken seriously.

My husbands parents offered him a party for his barmitzvah or a trip to E'Y, he chose the trip, over 20 years later he still talks about it - it made a real impression on him.

Don't discuss the numbers, work out what you can do and show him you're excited for his moment and want to make it special.

amother

Floralwhite

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 6:33 pm

amother wrote:

Am I a bad mom for not spending more on my sons bar mitzva??? I dont think so. I think im being rational and realistic with our budgget and im not giving into the pressure of "keeping up with jones". Yes, my kids have a right to "fit in", but the problem is that if everyone is raising the bar by following the norm, then kids from poorer families will always feel different unless their parents go into debt to "fit in". How far does this go? And, wat is this teaching our children for the future?? Will they go into debt also thinking that they are "bad" if they dont provide the norm???

The problem is that a $3000 seuda with music and nice food in a nice place with a new suit is A LOT IN MY EYES AND IS A VERY NICE SIMCHA IN MY OPINION. its not a necessity to have a party.

Im curious to hear about ur opinionabout this.

The problem I see is that you're asking a 13 year old to set an example for your neighborhood and his friends. That's not an easy thing for a 13 year old, it puts him in a very uncomfortable spot at this tender rocky age - and at a very important milestone moreover.

You're stressing "In My Opinion".. As others have said, why don't you talk with your son and ask him what would be a lot "in HIS opinion". He may not care so much about a nice place, or nice food, or extended family being present.... Let him be an active partaker in the plans, and this way he can actually learn how to implement 'the not keeping up with jones" values.

But I would ask you this - Have you stressed this not keeping up with the Jones thing before, is this something built into your framework of your home? If it's not, then it's not fair to make such an important milestone to be the thing that stresses this life lesson. It can be and should be, somewhat considered, but not to the same degree as someone who has been taught this from early on.

amother

Olive

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 10:28 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Are you sure it means nothing to him? That sounds like the kind of thing pre-teens say and don't really mean.

If he doesn't understand money (and of course he doesn't, he's 12), maybe the whole problem is that what's he's imagining a $3,000 bar mitzva looks like and what it actually looks like aren't the same thing. Maybe you asked if he'd be OK with a cheap bar mitzvah, and he assumed something embarrassingly cheap, way worse than every other kid's bar mitzvah.

When it sounds like actually it's about average for his class? Or at least not very obviously different from the average.

I'd break it down for him. "We would do a party with all of your friends at (location), with (food) and (entertainment). Something like what (other kid in his class) did. I would really like to do this for you, and I think you'll have fun. What do you say?"

If what he says is "no, that's stupid, I don't care," give him a week or so to think about it, because he's 12. If he's serious, ask him to come up with alternative ideas.

Thanks for this. You are probably correct.

amother

Olive

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 10:33 pm

amother wrote:

Thanks for ur response. Yes, I always stress it because my other child always compares to classmates friends...and like I said there are families like us and others who have money to spend. However, ive always stressed about living within wat hashem gave us/our means and about how we cant look at others because everyone gets different things. I believe in not keeping with jones ...because its only way we can be out of debt bh and I always stressed it before this. We have always made simple simchas and so did my parents who didnt have a lot of money to spend.

amother

Olive

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 10:37 pm

zaq wrote:

Stick to your guns and do what you can afford and feel comfortable with. Your son is quite old enough to learn that everyone has different incomes, expenses and priorities, and everyone must do what is consonant with his values and resources, not anyone else’s. True friends will understand, and those who will reject him because his parents are less lavish than others are not true friends in any case.

Thanks for this. I see u agree with me that my son is old enough to learn about how we all have different incomes and therefore must spend differently.

With regards to his good friends, they are probably going to spend more than $3000, but none of his friends' families are fancy and my son will not see a noticable difference except my son wont be leining but thats my son' s choice not to lein.

amother

Olive

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 10:39 pm

amother wrote:

Thanks for this. I do agree with all u wrote. I do feel that way but im not sure if I verbalized it. So thanks for explaining to me.

amother

Olive

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 10:41 pm

rowo wrote:

U are correct. This is probably wat hes thinking.

amother

Olive

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 10:46 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

Thanks for both of ur posts. U really understand the situation. I will try to think about and implement all the great advice posters are writing. As an aside, the $3000 we are paying is for the seuda in a shul or nice place and it is not going to be in our small place of living, so to my son who is clueless about costs, he wont see a noticable difference from some other bar mitzvas, so I see now like others hace said its about feeling special and not really only about the money.

amother

Honeydew

Fri, Mar 08 2019, 2:22 am

I think the issue is that he was told his party would cost "only" 3k. he should not have been told that. he should have been presented with the party idea and asked for his opinion on the different aspects of it, all options within your means. He shouldn't know that other people spend more, and it shouldnt be presented as "will it be enough for you if we only do a humble party"...
I def think you should do the party as opposed to nothing. even though its a lot of money for him to be saying its no big deal I dont think he will really feel like that on the night of the party. mazel tov!

amother

Magenta

Fri, Mar 08 2019, 5:39 am

I understand how you feel. When I was 13, I had no concept of money. I knew what I wanted and I wanted my dad to buy it.
Maybe he could come along to your husband's job for half a day and see how he actually makes money (or you). And you can explain to him how much you earn per hour, how many hours you work for those 3k. Sometimes that puts things in perspective. When my husband wanted to get a super fancy computer I told him... How many hours do you have to work for this??? When he realized how many hours that would be, he didn't want it.
Also I would validate his feelings, he might be embarrassed about a small "cheap" meal where his friends do everything super shmancy. But he is part of your family and your family isn't fancy shmancy and he has to accept that.

amother

Wine

Fri, Mar 08 2019, 8:44 am

amother wrote:

Thanks. I did explain to him.

But, I have a question for u. Are u saying that u think I SHOULD SPEND $3000 AND MAKE THE BAR MITZVA EVEN THOUGH IT MEANS NOTHING TO HIM??? I was willing to spend $3000 but he says its nothing to him, so u think I shld still make it??

We also have limited funds, and we also made a cheap bar mitzva, but we didn't discuss any of that with my son. We made a lot of the food ourselves, made it in one of the cheaper halls around, got tablecloths and centerpieces from a gemach, he had no idea that other people spend thousands for those things, we just didn't talk about it.

He really wanted a one man band, so we shopped around and found someone cheap who also had good references. My son was thrilled.

I think the mistake you're making is discussing with your son how "cheap" the bar mitzvah should be. Like other posters wrote, ask him what he cares about and then figure out how to make it work within your budget.

All financial conversations should stay between you and your husband.

keym

Fri, Mar 08 2019, 9:56 am

I haven't made bar mitzvah yet, but we are starting to talk (son almost 12).
I discovered that even on a budget, a boy has opinions.
For example I said he could choose a hot Kiddush on shabbos (cholent, kugel, herring) for men only or just cake and cookies for men and women.
A catered meal for fewer people on shabbos or home cooked for more.
Choice of one man band or flower. A photographer for just one hour before bar mitzvah as opposed to the whole event, just one hour, maybe a nicer dessert.
I don't know. Just ideas.
Give him specific choices even while sticking to your budget.
Let him choose if he would rather having 20 people at $100/plate, or 100 people at $20/plate or somewhere in between.

amother

Wine

Fri, Mar 08 2019, 10:00 am

oliveoil wrote:

I would imagine this is the attitude your kid is reacting to, more than the dollar amount.

ITA, a boy should not have to feel that his bar mitzvah is a sacrifice.

Quote:

Thanks for this. see u agree with me that my son is old enough to learn about how we all have different incomes and therefore must spend differently.

He's definitely old enough to learn that, my kids learn it when they're much younger. But it should not be at all associated with his bar mitzvah. If he wasn't taught that yet, he can be taught in the next few years, don't bring his bar mitzvah into the conversation.

Even in a conversation about everyone having different incomes you shouldn't be making it sound like they have to sacrifice. When my kids complain about something their friends have that they can't get, I point out something we did or got for them that their friends don't have. At one point my husband found something in the flea market that made the whole neighborhood jealous, even the really wealthy kids. So I remind them about that, or trips we've taken where we had a blast without really spending money.

Your attitude about money will be reflected in your kids. If you talk about how you feel deprived, or how they have to sacrifice, they will feel deprived. If your house is a happy place to be, that's so much more important than all the money in the world.

Although, once they turn into teenagers that attitude does change for a lot of kids. But by then they also see more of the darker side of life, they will notice that their friend has everything she wants except for parents who spend time with her. Or their other friend with a sick family member, or divorced parents. And then you can help them understand that money doesn't buy happiness.