If tzedaka was a tax withheld would it work?

doodlesmom

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 8:48 am

We were discussing on shabbos and am interested in your take...
If tzedaka would be like taxes where 10% would be taken off all your income and half of it would be given to Mosdos you affiliate with and the other half would be given to a set up committee who will determine how to allocate the money to all the different organizations with the most important ones given more priority would we be better off?

I know there are many pros and cons including how much money will be saved by omitting fundraising and advertising and the fact that feeding poor children will get more priority than donating a beautiful chandelier.
It would also eliminate duplicate orgs that exist due to politics.
But the concept of taking the emotions out of giving and making it communistic seems like a bad idea.

What's your opinion?

33055

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 8:55 am

My opinion is that when you have a big pile of money, someone will stick their hand in it. They may do it with outrageous salaries or nepotism or using the funding to pay their expenses. I have seen it all and then some I haven't mentioned.

You also set up priorities that not everyone will agree with. There is an organization in Monsey that takes care of bills for cancer patients. They will send an escort for doctors appointments. This is all well and good. If this appeals to you, donate. But what if you rather give your tzedukah money to others suffering from a different disease? Why shouldn't your resources support someone on, say, bedrest?

I like the idea of direct giving. You give to what organizations or individuals you want. I very rarely respond to direct appeals because fund raisers take too much off the top.

amother

Azure

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 8:57 am

I also was concerned about the "committee" aspect. Honestly, I see how money is "spent" in my community and I don't agree with the priorities. I'm talking about sponsorship and the like, not how much people spend on their own clothing, house etc...

I actually just e-mailed a local rabbi telling him about my hesitation of donating to a local tzedakah he's involved with. I have reason to believe that they may do things differently then what I would like done with money I donate. I explained to him my concern and am waiting to hear back. I can't imagine giving over that control. That also doesn't factor in people giving to family members who don't live in that community.

amother

Violet

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 9:04 am

doodlesmom wrote:

I agree with the others. And I want to add that why should 50% automatically go to the Mosdos? If I have family members who are in dire need, they would be my priority.

Additionally, needs and priorities are dynamic not static. Things are constantly changing. Why wouldn't I want to be the one who decides what is currently the priority?

ra_mom

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 9:11 am

I think the fact that everybody gives to causes that talk to them, is more helpful in balancing things out. Every cause has more of a chance. The little people, relatives that others don't know about, are more likely to be helped. Differences in thinking and opinions is helpful in such a situation.

Iymnok

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 9:21 am

Part of the Mitzvah of tzedaka is to build us up as humans, improve our middos.
This idea also wouldn’t work since tzedaka is much more complex than that. If you are in debt, then the money you make isn’t all yours, some belongs to the debtor, thus not incometo take maaser from.
According to the Rambam, the poor of your family come first, then your city, then yerushalayim. You get to make the decision what gets sent where. And how.

I doubt this committee will pay for therapy or anything related to mental health.

amother

Peach

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 9:23 am

No.
even with the best of intentions I am highly allergic to people even the most high minded people looking at other people's money and telling them how to spend their money or giving them the opportunity to spend other peoples money for them in order to "solve" issues.
it just does not work
everyone has their own priorities
things change
people spend their own money differently from the way they spend other peoples money - almost always true

we do not need more "big government"
its really disrespectful and patronizing, why would "they" know more about how best to spend everyone's money?
its infantilizing -- "you must spend this and you must spend it on this"
wishing everyone abundant resources and clarity as to how to best direct it

doodlesmom

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 9:28 am

Giving to organizations that talk to you is great and emotional giving tends to be more, but shouldnt less money be given for ostentatious building of shuls and mosdos and more for people lacking actual necessities.
Lately the loud organizations have become outrageously luxurious.
Ie most people believe children of cancer patients need extra tlc but do they each need $500 worth of toys per yom tov ?

LittleDucky

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 9:41 am

Nope. Many people live in interconnected communities so how would we answer the "which mosdos do I affiliate with?" Question? What about national organizations? Is this only for the RW community? What about MO organizations? What about cross over ones, like those that benefit everyone no matter frum, type of observance etc?
I also do not agree with how others choose to allocate their money so why should they be in charge of my money? And would those in charge get a salary? Any perks? Oversight to make sure they are not just supporting their pet project (a specific Kollel or just Kollel in general vs education vs tomchei shabbos etc) to the detriment of other worthy organizations.

And anyway how will they count or collect the 10%? I don't want others knowing all the salaries of the community. What if someone lost their job- now that's public knowledge? What if they need the money themselves and can't donate? Some people are in such debt, financial need etc that they were told not to donate full maser and only gave small amounts.

Yes I agree that fundraising costs are outrageous but maybe we should just demand as a community that we see how much is spent in those areas and only donate to those that keep costs down. There are organizations in the regular world for charity oversight. Maybe we should demand it for our organizations too.

amother

Peach

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 9:45 am

I choose to give direct in which 100% goes to the "recipient'.
no or extremely little fundraising overhead

I or you may not agree with someone else's tzedaka and/or spending priorities but I totally respect that it is their choice to make. As is mine.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 9:58 am

If someone is taking money from you, and deciding what to do with it, is it really a mitzva anymore?

IMHO, my understanding was that tzedaka had to be a more personal choice of who to give to, and where. If your neighbor is a widow with 5 kids, and you choose to give 100% of your tzedaka to her, then what will the organizations say? Do they have the right to complain?

Cheiny

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 10:44 am

doodlesmom wrote:

You’re ignoring the entire point of Tzedaka. Your idea would do away with free will! We are obligated to give 10% to tzedaka, but obviously not everyone does so. Your idea would eliminate the choice to do right from wrong and therefore it’s a non starter.

doodlesmom

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 10:48 am

Cheiny wrote:

Just to clarify it's not an idea I want to implement way too complicated with too many cons it's just something we discussed after seeing the amount of tzedaka wasted on fundraising marketing and frivolous spending.

ra_mom

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:27 am

doodlesmom wrote:

People need to be smart and educate themselves. And give accordingly.
Most of us do not pour money into the fundraising campaigns. Sometimes it's those that have a lot that get pressured to give to the big causes and the publicity can sometimes (but not always) be part of it. But that's human nature too.

amother

Coral

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:42 am

Throughout Jewish history, there have been kehilla funds, where the whole community was taxed for communal needs. Generally these were pretty homogeneous communities, and people gave tzedaka above and beyond the tax. So it's hard to know how it would work in our world.

There are definitely times when priorities seem a bit mixed up. In my not so humble opinion, we need to spend a lot more on elementary schools, and a lot less on sustaining unsustainable norms. But of course, others disagree.

I do think that we need to have conversations about our priorities.