Totally at a loss of how to handle my child

thunderstorm

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 1:47 pm

amother wrote:

She was not bad as a baby or toddler at all. I saw her behavior become bad after my daughter was born. Before then she was so cute and sweet and I didn’t have problems with her.

OP, I don't think I can solve the problem but maybe help you not feel alone. I also experience a lot of difficulty with one of my children. He also told me that he doesn't forgive me for giving birth to his brother. He is older than 8 but it started when he was four and escalated year after year and now constantly bullies this younger brother who was born when he was four as well. He warned me before the baby was born that he did not want a new baby and he wanted to be my baby forever.
My most difficult part of him is the constant bullying of his brother who I believe suffers emotionally because of him. It makes it very hard to be nice to these children expecially when it feels like they are torturing you am deathly your other kids on purpose. I try very hard to think about him and his pain for no longer being the baby and little brother we all doted on. My DH especially gives him ALOT of attention. He's able to be less emotional than I am. I sometimes take his behavior personally like it's an Attack on me. But it's obvious, the more I get upset at him the more he will be not nice to me. He wants me to show him unconditional love and undivided attention even when there are other siblings around.
Based on what you describe, I hope your daughter is not bullying her younger sibling , because it is so damaging to the younger child and then you are left with two suffering children . Also remember your oldest daughter understands that you struggle with her younger sibling and is taking it very hard too ,even though she's a goody two shoes and isn't acting out. Make sure that she gets her dose of undivided attention as well.
It is extremely hard being the mother stuck in the middle of this. May Hashem grant you the mental and physical energy to deal with it all. Many hugs to you.

amother

Oak

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 1:48 pm

amother wrote:

Could it be she's just being a brat? Nowadays everyone wants to label everything, preferably with initials, but something you mentioned made me think maybe she's just acting like a good old-fashioned brat.

- the fact that your 4 year old sleeps in bed with you - does this mean your 8 year old who was the youngest for a long time was also babied until the new baby came along?

I would recommend giving attention to the well-behaving children and ignoring her meltdowns. Try it - when she sees no results from her tantrums she might just stop them.

What excellent advice. My parents pretty much did this to my younger sister, who was "just being a brat" instead of addressing her issues. (I was the "angelic" 10 year old.) Today she's a very traumatized adult, and her whole family is suffering. I've suffered in my own way, too...it's not easy always having to be the good child.

tichellady

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 1:49 pm

amother wrote:

You all have me crying and I’m in public so it’s a little embarrassing!!
I feel like I’m totally failing and looking for the easy way out because it’s so hard. And so emotionally draining. Navigating this and making all the kids happy....I don’t know where to begin. One one hand I feel she needs the medicine to regulate her temperament - it’s very hot cold. Very dramatic very impulsive. Last week for example she was having chulent and my husband didn’t save the leftovers and she wanted more and when she heard she ran to her room crying. I was upset for her trust me but the reaction was extreme.
I’m just crying for her today. For what happened to her. Because I had a 4th child I messed her up. So badly. She lost being my baby and I’m so busy and they are close in age the older 3 and it’s so hectic every day.

Don’t give up. She’s still young and there is still plenty of time to work on your relationship and parenting. You are trying to make a change and should give yourself some credit for taking the first step!

amother

Chocolate

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 1:50 pm

amother wrote:

I was the “brat”
Trust me, there were reasons for it

mha3484

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 1:51 pm

I also wanted to recommend the explosive child. It has done wonders for my oldest child and really has filtered down to my younger ones. I really found that approaching parenting with empathy which is a major part of the book has done great things for all of us in our family. I think also looking at situations under the lens of he wants to succeed what is stopping him takes away lots of drama.

My oldest is 8. He does have a diagnosis and medication and hes made tons of progress but even that, I find the age is so hard! I think they are in this weird period of not being little anymore but they lack the maturity of an older child. I can have these really mature conversations with my son where I am so impressed then an hour later its back to joking about bodily functions. He is starting to really have some big feelings about getting older, social changes, school is getting more intense but he lacks the maturity to really process it and is so so moody. I thought I had a few more years until this stuff lol. I constantly tell myself hes having a hard time and how can I be kind to him because he needs that from me now not a punishment. Its hard OP but really rewarding!

yksraya

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 2:40 pm

8 yrs old is a tough age especially when the kid is a middle child or very sensitive/needy by nature. Don't berate yourself. It's not your fault or the baby's fault.

Can you leave her home for a fake sick day? You pretend in the morning that you think she looks a little fevery. And when the kids are all in school, spend some quality time with her. Make her favorite breakfast. Play a game with her. And most of all, let her chat with you.

amother

Burgundy

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 4:39 pm

I understand a little bit about what you're going through. I have a stepdaughter that I could describe the same way. It is extremely frustrating for us. We know why she acts like this though (her mom we are absolutely convinced has npd (narcissistic personality disorder.) We are very limited with how we can help her because she mostly lives by her mom... that's another long story.

I would reiterate a lot of what other people have said. Give her lots of unconditional love, try not to react when she misbehaves, just ignore. I don't think positive attention should ever be a 'reward' she always deserves positive attention and love. I find that it's hard for me to move on, even when my stepdaughter has moved on from misbehaving I can't transition away from being annoyed at her. But it's something I know for myself I need to work on.

I think siblings can be understanding if you explain to them in the right way that right now she needs more attention from you. You should also try to separate them as much as you can and spread extra curricular activities out to be separate days of the week. Does she like art? Having her take an art class (drawing, painting, sewing, baking...), can be great for her and extremely therapeutic and an outlet she can use at home when she is upset.

I think you should gain strength from the fact that your daughter wants to change, that's huge. Also for me personally what makes it hard for me (I am actually depressed right now from everything I have to deal with being a stepmother) is that I have absolutely no ability to change anything. I'm 'stuck' with this situation. My ability to change things is extremely limited. Here the power is in your hands to help your child; I truly believe it is. Let that motivate you! Find ways to keep staying positive, that's extremely important.

amother

Green

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 4:44 pm

She’s home now and it’s been one thing after another and they are only home for 30 minutes
I’m getting depressed too.
And I believe she has a personality disorder - my mil does and though therapists tell me it’s nothing genetic she’s exactly like my mil. She creates a bad situation makes us all mad and then she moves on and we are all left upset

My mil does the same thing to a t.

amother

Burgundy

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 4:50 pm

Go give her a hug right now. You don't even have to say anything. Just give her a hug like you mean it.
It's also helpful to take a 'time out' with her. You take her into her room and just stay with her until she calms down. Let her not feel like it is a punishment, let her still feel like you love her and aren't angry. You just want to stay with her until she is calm. Give her a massage when you are in the room with her.
It is important that she doesn't feel unloved or resentment or anger...

I know it isn't easy but you can do it.

amother

Seagreen

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 4:51 pm

amother wrote:

Here's the thing. At some point, you admitted that for the first half of her life she was a sweet, adorable child. You said she changed after the arrival of your youngest. More importantly, she herself is telling you that this is all about her younger sister! I understand that it would be easier to slap a diagnosis on her, but you can't ignore the flashing lights in front of you if you really want to help her.

Kiwi13

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 4:56 pm

She says nothing is helping, but does she have ideas what will? I'm not suggesting that an 8-year old will have the full answer, but what she says in response to such a question might shed some light on what's going on with her? I think that at 8 years old, she might benefit from being an active participant in getting herself through this tough spot. From the sound of what you've written, I'm sure you're already doing that, I'm just wondering if maybe there's something more in there that's being missed. When she was so insistent that the behavior chart wouldn't work, do you think she was just being defiant in the moment? Or was she maybe hinting that the chart won't work but something else might?

ETA: What if you were to ask her how she thinks you ought to respond to her behavior? What the rewards/consequences should be? What help she would need along the way as she works toward her goals (better behavior, etc.)?

Last edited by Kiwi13 on Mon, Mar 11 2019, 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Chocolate

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 4:58 pm

amother wrote:

I think youre seeing your mil in her and are getting trigerred bec of that
Not sure an eight year old can already have a personality disorder

Kiwi13

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 5:04 pm

amother wrote:

I think youre seeing your mil in her and are getting trigerred bec of that
Not sure an eight year old can already have a personality disorder

In grad school (mental health counseling) my psychopathology professor taught us never to even consider diagnosing personality disorders in children/teens. So many childhood/adolescent stages look like something worse IF you were to project that behavior onto a fully grown adult. He claimed that most/all teenage girls go through a phase similar to borderline PD. Antisocial PD is never diagnosed before age 18, even if you can see it coming a mile away, and it requires a string of previous diagnoses - ODD, CD, and history of increasingly troublesome behavior and patterns.

Personality disorders are longstanding patterns that hold true across settings. If OP's daughter suddenly developed these issues at a certain point, it's most likely something situational. Especially since OP had her tested. Obviously no on in an online forum can say for sure what's going on, but I'd be very cautious about labeling diagnoses so early on, and I would not jump to medicate unless a trusted doctor has a specific medication in mind for treating a specific problem that that medication is known to help treat.

amother

Green

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 10:31 pm

I keep going through the advice here. I tried to be more loving to her tonight- kept running to her and asking for a quick hug and kiss - sometimes she told me no.
But then she wanted to play soccer with my son bc they do that at recess in school and she wants to get better at it and they played a while outside tonight. She came in at one point and I said you are sweaty - getting a good workout!! I was happy - and she ran to look in the mirror to see herself and see how red she was. But she apparently lost to my son 10-0 (and he told me he tried to let her score but even when he gave it to her she missed the net) and so she ran inside at the end crying screaming that she is no longer a “sporty” girl and ran to her room. My husband went to her and she screamed to him “leave me alone!” Which he did. Then she came down after a while and asked me to change her earrings. She had small ones in but said now that she’s not sporty she wants longer dangling ones - I never even realized she attributed her earrings to her playing a sport. I changed them for her. I don’t think she will like these dangly ones and I tried to convince her to keep the others in but she said no so I did it for her.
So seeing her reaction to losing soccer then made me revisit my thoughts of medication- I said to my husband maybe she needs something to regulate her moods? Her responses? To level her? I don’t know.

amother

Babypink

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 10:39 pm

First of all, hugs for trying so hard to make things better.

Other points (pretty much a summation of what others have said)

1. Try to get her off sugar and gluten. That can make some kids wildly misbehave.
2. Don't give up trying to give her positive attention. Years of being relegated to the side in favor of the baby will take a long time to get over. Give her one on ones. A little outing with just the 2 of you every so often.
3. Agree with PP about Sarah Chana Radcliff; she really "gets" it. If your family dynamics need changing, I think she would be a fabulous person to try.
4. Perhaps work on babying the 4 year old a little less. Like PPs have said, she should sleep in her own room and have some light chores.

trixx

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 10:46 pm

amother wrote:

Why are you even trying to micromanage here... Such a small dumb battle. Give her space and let her decide on her own if she likes them or not

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 10:51 pm

amother wrote:

I work with kids and a lot of kids would be pretty upset about losing 10-0. They take this stuff really seriously. It’s a shame she couldn’t get at least one goal.

Fox

Mon, Mar 11 2019, 11:28 pm

OP, I don't want this to be construed as bashing, because you certainly have the need to vent about this, and better to do it on Imamother than IRL.

But I get a very strong sense that this is about you -- that you want your DD "fixed" so that she'll once again be cute and sweet.

That is not going to happen. In fact, it would be a red flag if it did happen -- it would likely signal that your DD was subverting her personality solely for your approval.

Diet, allergies, medications . . . even when these solutions work, they do not miraculously make children cute and sweet.

Can you concentrate on disengaging your own reactions? Deliberately avoid thinking about how your DD makes you feel? Perhaps focus on showing her acceptance rather than love?

Of course she is going to overreact to perceived failure. She feels that she can't do anything right. Most of all, she perceives that you want a daughter who is cute and sweet, and to the extent that she doesn't meet those criteria, she is weighed down by what she interprets as your rejection.

Spend less time loving her and more time getting to know and appreciate who she is as a person. Loving your child is sometimes not as important as finding things about them to like.

amother

Green

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 8:09 am

Thanks so much everyone. I definitely have my work cut out for me.
And yes I feel bad she couldn’t even score one goal. I didn’t want her to give up completely though.
I wanted to clarify about the dangly earrings I was trying to convince her not to use them bc she wore them once and complained her hair got stuck in them. Often she goes to school and comes home having taken her earrings out in school and I am always afraid she will lose one so I just felt like this was a bad idea for so many reasons. I tried to tell her she herself has said she didn’t like them bc they caught in her hair - she didn’t care so I put them in. Was that micromanaging?