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amother




Aubergine


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 4:49 am
Yesterday I was approached by a woman who pointed at my son and asked where she could get "those things" (kippa and peyos) for a costume. I also noticed that in many costume shops there are 'chassidic hats' with long peyos attached. I've also had a handful of dati leumi women in my area ask if they could borrow my wig or turban for their 'costume'.

Is it weird that I find this offensive? I don't even know how to react. This is in Israel btw.
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amother




Cerulean


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 5:17 am
amother wrote:
Yesterday I was approached by a woman who pointed at my son and asked where she could get "those things" (kippa and peyos) for a costume. I also noticed that in many costume shops there are 'chassidic hats' with long peyos attached. I've also had a handful of dati leumi women in my area ask if they could borrow my wig or turban for their 'costume'.

Is it weird that I find this offensive? I don't even know how to react. This is in Israel btw.


Do you also find it offensive if someone wants to dress up in a japanese kimono, or in an indian headdress?
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amother




Aubergine


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 5:23 am
amother wrote:
Do you also find it offensive if someone wants to dress up in a japanese kimono, or in an indian headdress?


1) I personally wouldn't do it, but more so because I think that these costumes have nothing to do with Jews or Purim
2) Japanese and Native Americans are in short supply in Israel - I don't think they're around to get offended
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mochamix18




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 5:38 am
I also live in Israel. I would ask back if you could borrow their kippit serugot, kakis and naot/blundstones. V’nahafoch hu after all.
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Israeli_C




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 5:53 am
mochamix18 wrote:
I also live in Israel. I would ask back if you could borrow their kippit serugot, kakis and naot/blundstones. V’nahafoch hu after all.

I wish I could 'like' this post twice!!
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mochamix18




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 5:56 am
Israeli_C wrote:
I wish I could 'like' this post twice!!
😂 Adar brings out my cheeky side and thanks
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zaq




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 6:42 am
amother wrote:
Yesterday I was approached by a woman who pointed at my son and asked where she could get "those things" (kippa and peyos) for a costume. I also noticed that in many costume shops there are 'chassidic hats' with long peyos attached. I've also had a handful of dati leumi women in my area ask if they could borrow my wig or turban for their 'costume'.

Is it weird that I find this offensive? I don't even know how to react. This is in Israel btw.


Not at all. My dh comments on this all the time and we are not Chassidish. The only way to look at it positively is to assume that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and that dressing up is not to be funny but to assume a different persona. A person dressing up as Kohen Gadol or Queen Esther is not making fun but expressing admiration or a desire to be like, which may be why many parents won’t allow their children to dress up as bad guys.


The whole theme of the Megillah is that no one is what s/he seems to be and everyone is masquerading as something other than w hat s/he really is.

Still, those people are being gauche if not outright rude. How would they like it if you approached them asking to borrow their clothes for a masquerade? Would they be flattered that you admire their look or offended that you find them figures of fun?
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 7:22 am
mochamix18 wrote:
I also live in Israel. I would ask back if you could borrow their kippit serugot, kakis and naot/blundstones. V’nahafoch hu after all.


We actually did exactly that with our neighbors last year - DH went chassidish, and our neighbor became a torani farmer. No one thought it was anything but good fun!
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amother




Aubergine


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 9:22 am
Rappel wrote:
We actually did exactly that with our neighbors last year - DH went chassidish, and our neighbor became a torani farmer. No one thought it was anything but good fun!


I think that situations where this would be seen in a positive light are where there's already a good relationship between the various parties. Where I'm living (overwhelmingly secular city) the secular population can be very nasty towards religious people (who they feel are "brainwashing their kids" and "taking over the city"). And within the religious community, haredim and DL don't mix well. But there's only one religious daycare (staff are haredi, kids are mostly DL) so the two worlds collide there and my son attends, which has led to mothers asking to 'borrow' my wig, turban etc for Purim.

I think it's really weird to ask someone you barely know to 'borrow' their wig. For me it's a personal article, like asking to wear my undershirt for Purim :/
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 9:26 am
As an Israeli American, I can see a culture clash here. Americans are more likely to be (somewhat) more aware of the issue of cultural appropriation.

I agree that it's offensive, but that's just my opinion. The next time someone asks a question like that, point them to the nearest Purim shop, and then go on your way.

You are not obligated to explain why you find something offensive unless you are in the mood to educate them, but be aware that they might not be open to listening.

Just search the board here to see how many threads there are about Israelis wearing blackface for Purim, and how divisive the issue is. If people can't see what's wrong with blackface, I doubt they'll see what's wrong with fake payos.
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amother




Silver


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 9:31 am
My Vizhnitz chassidish cousins in monsey dressed up on purim as non chassidish, for lack of a better word. They just dressed...cool. kids wore high ponies, cool sunglasses and funky earrings, cute t-shirts with ipods and colorful sneakers...a teenage girl pretended to be married with a crocheted beret snood pulled back exposing an inch of hair in front....in other words, my family's exact wardrobe. They looked like us.
It didn't even occur to me to find this offensive.
I thought it was humorous.
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thunderstorm




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 9:56 am
I dressed up one year like a woman that would live in Tzefat or the like. I wore a beautiful head wrap , pretty maxi dress, sandals and jewelry and makeup .
I have a strong desire to dress like that IRL and Purim allowed me to express that. I received so many compliments of how beautiful I looked and how well it suited me etc. My costume was my way of complimenting and saying "I love this look". I think it's offensive for someone to ask that you lend them your clothes and gear. That's the part I find offensive. They could purchase a costume or figure one out.
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sky




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 11:46 am
Personally I wouldn’t be insulted if someone dressed up like me - as long as it is in good taste.

If you start carrying around bags of money, have blood dripping from hands, rats hanging off body, evil sneers, etc. that is offensive
But looking like an aidle frum boy is sweet and cute.

Obviously you are insulted and you have the right to be - but has your family every dressed up as anyone else - native Americans, Mexicans, Japanese, Arabs, ... it’s all the same thing. Do you think it is wrong to dress in their culture?
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sky




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 11:47 am
amother wrote:
1) I personally wouldn't do it, but more so because I think that these costumes have nothing to do with Jews or Purim
2) Japanese and Native Americans are in short supply in Israel - I don't think they're around to get offended


With social media it’s a small world. Things travel fast.
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 12:02 pm
amother wrote:
I think that situations where this would be seen in a positive light are where there's already a good relationship between the various parties. Where I'm living (overwhelmingly secular city) the secular population can be very nasty towards religious people (who they feel are "brainwashing their kids" and "taking over the city"). And within the religious community, haredim and DL don't mix well. But there's only one religious daycare (staff are haredi, kids are mostly DL) so the two worlds collide there and my son attends, which has led to mothers asking to 'borrow' my wig, turban etc for Purim.

I think it's really weird to ask someone you barely know to 'borrow' their wig. For me it's a personal article, like asking to wear my undershirt for Purim :/


Fair point. I live on a yishuv, and the community is very close, whatever stripe or color you are. It would definitely be different if there were religious tensions within the town. (Though the deliberate switch between two families would probably be that much more refreshing.)
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amother




Mauve


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 12:20 pm
Most people don't mean bad, so if they are asking you, they probably don't find this offensive. In fact, if they knew you were offended, they probably wouldn't ask you.

I have a neighbor, Israeli dati leumi type, that due to a purim bet, he wears a shtreimel and bekish every shabbos. He loves it. Says it makes him feel so shabbosdik. We all get a kick out of it.

To me it shows unity, achdus. We are all really one.
(anon cuz I don't think this happens in too many neighborhoods.)
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DrMom




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 1:09 pm
Seems weird that she didn't know where to buy a kippah.
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 1:27 pm
My husband would love a streimel and we're not chassidish. Every time he davens in shul in N.Y. during the week he enters raffles for streimels.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 5:53 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
I dressed up one year like a woman that would live in Tzefat or the like. I wore a beautiful head wrap , pretty maxi dress, sandals and jewelry and makeup .
I have a strong desire to dress like that IRL and Purim allowed me to express that. I received so many compliments of how beautiful I looked and how well it suited me etc. My costume was my way of complimenting and saying "I love this look". I think it's offensive for someone to ask that you lend them your clothes and gear. That's the part I find offensive. They could purchase a costume or figure one out.


Last Purim I wore one of my Renaissance Faire gowns.

Nobody noticed. LOL

Someone did say that they liked my dress. When I said it was my princess costume, they said "Oh, I thought it was just another of your pretty, funky outfits!"

I guess I'm still a hippie at heart.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Mar 14 2019, 6:16 pm
amother wrote:
Yesterday I was approached by a woman who pointed at my son and asked where she could get "those things" (kippa and peyos) for a costume. I also noticed that in many costume shops there are 'chassidic hats' with long peyos attached. I've also had a handful of dati leumi women in my area ask if they could borrow my wig or turban for their 'costume'.

Is it weird that I find this offensive? I don't even know how to react. This is in Israel btw.


First of all, your feelings are your feelings. I may agree, or disagree. But whatever they are, you're allowed to have them.

But in this case, I feel the same. I'm MO, and I'd find that kind of costume offensive.
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