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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Purim
Kids using Sholoch Monos to hurt
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DVOM




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 20 2019, 7:03 pm
How awful! My son is that age... I can only imagine the pain for him and me if something like this were to happen!

Talk to the teacher and the principal. This sort of thing is not ok.
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 20 2019, 7:05 pm
It's not enough to involve one teacher. This (and birthdays) needs to be taken up with the principal in terms of school policy, and included in the school handbook given to parents at the beginning of the year.
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Wed, Mar 20 2019, 7:31 pm
Learning wrote:
I think you should talk to the school not the parents. This is not acceptable under any norm frum or secular


Agreed. I also think you should talk to the parents and see if they are remorseful or if they support their son. It is possible the parents made gifts for all children but the boy chose to keep some back. Unlikely but a possibility.

Remember too that Bar Mitzvah year is only a few years away. Do we want to witness the same boy brazenly giving out 15 invites?
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simcha2




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 20 2019, 7:41 pm
Definitely bring it up with his teacher.

Maybe his rebbe can learn the megilla with the boys where it discusses mishloach manot. The point of the mitzvah is to create שמחה.
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flowerpower




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 20 2019, 7:41 pm
The boy has bad middos like his mom. Why would she allow her son to do this? It’s so not ok. Definitely speak to the principal.
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amother
Smokey


 

Post Wed, Mar 20 2019, 7:41 pm
amother wrote:
Yes I would speak to teacher. It doesn’t hurt. And I am not sure why the mom is ok with this. I am sure she is the one making the mm and letting her son bring them to school


Maybe she has 10 kids and doesn't count all 150 mm. I would give her the benefit of the doubt. But I'd call her up and tell her what's going on with her kid.
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amother
Silver


 

Post Wed, Mar 20 2019, 8:12 pm
I can't get this post out of my mind. What in the world was that kid's mom thinking? I just can't make any sense of it.

My thoughts:

When one of my boys was in his first year of yeshiva, he was bullied terribly. The parents of the bully were so unhelpful. Frankly, they just seemed not to care. I can recall one conversation with the bully's mom: The bully was constantly teasing my son about his clothes, calling him a 'ballerina' and 'pretty princess'. I'm not sure why, his clothing was not particularly feminine. The mom responded that I need to make my son lose weight or buy him different clothing. Ouch.

The school year passed. My son made friends. He learned to stand up for himself. Things got better. Summer started. We go to a bungalow coloney with lots of family members, and my son was in a bunk with two of his cousins who adore and look up to him. Feeling secure and confident in his social standing, and after a year of wretched bullying, my son began to put down other kids. As the saying goes, hurt people hurt people.

One friday morning another mom in the bunk called me to let me know that my son was saying really mean things to her son, and getting his cousins to gang up on this poor kid. So I did all the things I wished my son's bully's parents would have done: I apologized with tears dripping down my face, explained while it was no excuse for his behavior, my son had had a very difficult year, assured her that the bullying would not continue for even one more day, sat my son down and talked it through. I made it very clear that if there was even one more incident of teasing, my son would not be returning to day camp. I made it very clear that I was confident in my son's ability to be kind and treat others the way he wanted to be treated. I connected his behavior with all the bullying he'd expreinced over the past year: how powerless he'd felt in school, how powerful it can feel to bully. I reminded him how painful the bullying had been. We hugged it out, and he told me he could turn it around. With my sister's support, I called in the cousins. We talked about how things would be different going forward.

I took my son, the two cousins, the kid who was being bullied, and we went out for ice cream. My son apologized, in front of his cousins, admited that he was actually a little jelous of this kid, who was so good at sports. When we got back to the bungalow, could this kid teach him how to dribble in between his legs? My son invited to kid to join us for our friday night meal. And that was the end of the bullying.

What's my point?

I wonder how I would have responded to that mom's phone call had I not been on the recieving end of bullying myself. I like to think I would have been responsive and helpful, but I just don't know. We all want to believe the best of our kids. It's so hard to be the mom of the bully. I was so mortified by my son's behavior. It would have been tempting to deny that it was happening. It could be that the mom of the boy bringing in the shalach manos was just clueless. Maybe she led a charmed life, and had never been stung in a social situation. Maybe all of her kids are popular and perfect and life has never taught her the pain of social ostracism. Maybe life never taught her to be kind. Or maybe she is aware that her kid is a bully and just doesn't know what to do about it. Perhaps she is in denial.

I'm just so disturbed by this story.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 20 2019, 9:34 pm
They start young.
Many people I know in Monsey do that, and they are a lot older than 10 , Sad
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 20 2019, 10:09 pm
flowerpower wrote:
The boy has bad middos like his mom. Why would she allow her son to do this? It’s so not ok. Definitely speak to the principal.

My kids make their own mishloach Manos. I go out with them to buy the stuff, but not all parents do. Maybe there is an older sibling who does moms Purim shopping, and younger sibling went along and got his own stuff and put it all together on his own.
Obviously I’m not condoning what this boy did, but to say that the mom has bad midos is a bit harsh. She may not even know what’s going on. I mean, for all you know, the mom could be sick in the hospital, or there may not even be a mom in the picture at all.
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 20 2019, 10:14 pm
Ema of 4 wrote:
My kids make their own mishloach Manos. I go out with them to buy the stuff, but not all parents do. Maybe there is an older sibling who does moms Purim shopping, and younger sibling went along and got his own stuff and put it all together on his own.
Obviously I’m not condoning what this boy did, but to say that the mom has bad midos is a bit harsh. She may not even know what’s going on. I mean, for all you know, the mom could be sick in the hospital, or there may not even be a mom in the picture at all.

This type of behavior starts at home. I see it all the time. Even if mom didn't know about this specific incident, there's an element at home that the child has picked up on. And you know the mom hasn't tried to stop it if it's still going on at age 10.5.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 20 2019, 10:29 pm
ra_mom wrote:
This type of behavior starts at home. I see it all the time. Even if mom didn't know about this specific incident, there's an element at home that the child has picked up on. And you know the mom hasn't tried to stop it if it's still going on at age 10.5.

I’m just saying, there’s enough mom shaming and blaming going on. Let’s not add more.
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flowerpower




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 20 2019, 10:32 pm
ra_mom wrote:
This type of behavior starts at home. I see it all the time. Even if mom didn't know about this specific incident, there's an element at home that the child has picked up on. And you know the mom hasn't tried to stop it if it's still going on at age 10.5.


I agree. I’m so greatful that my kids school has a plan- each kid gets 2-3 kids from the class to exchange with. This way no one gets hurt.

If the mom doesn’t know that her son is giving 15 mm then she needs parenting classes. My daughter is older than 10 1/2 and I know exactly whom she is giving to.
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Wed, Mar 20 2019, 11:01 pm
amother wrote:
I can't get this post out of my mind. What in the world was that kid's mom thinking? I just can't make any sense of it.

My thoughts:

When one of my boys was in his first year of yeshiva, he was bullied terribly. The parents of the bully were so unhelpful. Frankly, they just seemed not to care. I can recall one conversation with the bully's mom: The bully was constantly teasing my son about his clothes, calling him a 'ballerina' and 'pretty princess'. I'm not sure why, his clothing was not particularly feminine. The mom responded that I need to make my son lose weight or buy him different clothing. Ouch.

The school year passed. My son made friends. He learned to stand up for himself. Things got better. Summer started. We go to a bungalow coloney with lots of family members, and my son was in a bunk with two of his cousins who adore and look up to him. Feeling secure and confident in his social standing, and after a year of wretched bullying, my son began to put down other kids. As the saying goes, hurt people hurt people.

One friday morning another mom in the bunk called me to let me know that my son was saying really mean things to her son, and getting his cousins to gang up on this poor kid. So I did all the things I wished my son's bully's parents would have done: I apologized with tears dripping down my face, explained while it was no excuse for his behavior, my son had had a very difficult year, assured her that the bullying would not continue for even one more day, sat my son down and talked it through. I made it very clear that if there was even one more incident of teasing, my son would not be returning to day camp. I made it very clear that I was confident in my son's ability to be kind and treat others the way he wanted to be treated. I connected his behavior with all the bullying he'd expreinced over the past year: how powerless he'd felt in school, how powerful it can feel to bully. I reminded him how painful the bullying had been. We hugged it out, and he told me he could turn it around. With my sister's support, I called in the cousins. We talked about how things would be different going forward.

I took my son, the two cousins, the kid who was being bullied, and we went out for ice cream. My son apologized, in front of his cousins, admited that he was actually a little jelous of this kid, who was so good at sports. When we got back to the bungalow, could this kid teach him how to dribble in between his legs? My son invited to kid to join us for our friday night meal. And that was the end of the bullying.
.

Applause Applause
You deserve the mom of the year award in my eyes. I just had tears thinking about how amazingly you handled the situation, both when your son was bullied and when he was the bully. Your son is lucky to have such an amazing mom.
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Moonlight




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 20 2019, 11:18 pm
amother wrote:
Applause Applause
You deserve the mom of the year award in my eyes. I just had tears thinking about how amazingly you handled the situation, both when your son was bullied and when he was the bully. Your son is lucky to have such an amazing mom.

Firstly, I agree! Great mom over there!
My kids school sent home a note that you are not allowed to bring any mishloach manos to school
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amother
Smokey


 

Post Thu, Mar 21 2019, 12:38 am
flowerpower wrote:
I agree. I’m so greatful that my kids school has a plan- each kid gets 2-3 kids from the class to exchange with. This way no one gets hurt.

If the mom doesn’t know that her son is giving 15 mm then she needs parenting classes. My daughter is older than 10 1/2 and I know exactly whom she is giving to.


Well you're super judgmental. Maybe you need parenting classes?
You don't even know this family, how could you judge them? Maybe the mom had cancer maybe she's overwhelmed, maybe she's 9 months pregnant ..Who knows??
What the son did wasn't okay and it needs to be figured out but you're judgmental attitude is also not okay imo.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 21 2019, 2:29 am
This is the exact opposite of what a Mishloach Manos is for! How sad.

I'm so sorry your son went through that, OP.

I would definitely involve the principal, and I wouldn't drop it until there's a face-to-face meeting with you, the hanhala, and the parents of this child.

A clear message needs to be sent by all the adults in both childrens' lives that this is not acceptable.
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Metukah




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 21 2019, 4:46 am
amother wrote:
...
I wonder how I would have responded to that mom's phone call had I not been on the recieving end of bullying myself. I like to think I would have been responsive and helpful, but I just don't know. We all want to believe the best of our kids. It's so hard to be the mom of the bully. I was so mortified by my son's behavior. It would have been tempting to deny that it was happening. It could be that the mom of the boy bringing in the shalach manos was just clueless. Maybe she led a charmed life, and had never been stung in a social situation. Maybe all of her kids are popular and perfect and life has never taught her the pain of social ostracism. Maybe life never taught her to be kind. Or maybe she is aware that her kid is a bully and just doesn't know what to do about it. Perhaps she is in denial.

I'm just so disturbed by this story.


I like to think that as a human being, particularly a Jew with the trait of 'rachamim', you would've been extremely disturbed and would've dealt with it much the same.

There is no excuse for a mother to allow her child to be a bully. If any child of mine was bullied and the mother responded in the same way as in your story, I would've made a scandal out of it. Trust me.

My children know, that way way more important than academic achievement is to me, kindness and midos toivos are.

I hope I have instilled it into my children well enough, as my mother did to me. When my daughter was 4 she came home from school one day and said 'even though its a mitzva to be happy sometimes it's a mitzva to be sad, right?' when I asked her why she said that a girl in a different grade broke her leg and was in a wheelchair and other girls were staring at her, it truly broke my daughter's heart that people were staring and making the girl uncomfortable /upset. Sensitivity should be fed to kids, in their milk, from birth.

To me that is all that is important. As a professional, with advanced qualifications, I can truly say that it is all worthless if a person is unkind. When I was looking for a pa, someone way more qualified than I, actually the person I respect most in the world, told me that I could look for the most qualified, the most experienced, the best character, but if the person is not kind it will never work out. I didn't realise how true it was until I hired someone (that I actually knew personally) who I had no doubt would be perfect. She didn't last 4 months because of her unkind nature. (thankfully she left on her own, because she wasn't getting her own way all the time, otherwise I would've had to let her go and it would've been uncomfortable). I have mentioned this before on ima, my career success is totally because of my empathy and my mother who taught me that caring about others was the most important thing in the world. I say totally and I mean it.

When I come home from pta I always tell my kids that as proud as I am of their achievements I am most proud of their good midos, and I stress that I wouldn't be happy with their achievements if it didn't come along with kindness.

OP, I would've called the headteacher, at home, even before purim. What happens in school is his/her responsibility and if my child's purim was ruined due to something that happened in school time, he/she should be held responsible.

If it's of any comfort op, IME, the bullies don't usually amount to much, other than to be parents of more bullies and abusive spouses/employers/parents. The girls in my class who were bullies don't have much to show for themselves today, IMHO. Those who are successful today (happiness/famiy/career/financially or any area) were the kind ones and definitely not the bullies.

I'm not sure why this thread riled me up so much, I've been thinking about it since last night and can't get your poor kid out of my head.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 21 2019, 11:44 am
OP, I can't stop thinking about your son. It's been on my mind all night.

I have this fantasy of coming to your house and giving your son the coolest M"M ever, but I know that won't fix it.

Please keep us posted as to how the school handled it.

I think the reason that so many of us are riled up is that we've been there. I remember a girl in my class gave like ten "special" M"M that were really elegant (her mother was the type that hired a party planner to make her M"M and that was 30 years ago) and then she put together a whole bunch of "regular" ones for everyone else.

The whole class had bated breath to see who would get one of the coveted "professional" ones. I was not zocheh.

I still can't fathom the mindset of a mother who allows and encourages this. 30 years ago, there wasn't as much awareness as today, but still.
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aricelli




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 21 2019, 12:23 pm
Ema of 4 wrote:
I’m just saying, there’s enough mom shaming and blaming going on. Let’s not add more.

Thank you.
The previous comment about it being the parents fault hurt.
My son was a bully at one point- it hurt me to my core. We took care of the issue and now he is a sweetie. But trust me- when he bullied it hurt me more than when he was being bullied.
OP- hugs!
My childrens school is super strict about this bh.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 21 2019, 1:30 pm
aricelli wrote:
Thank you.
The previous comment about it being the parents fault hurt.
My son was a bully at one point- it hurt me to my core. We took care of the issue and now he is a sweetie. But trust me- when he bullied it hurt me more than when he was being bullied.
OP- hugs!
My childrens school is super strict about this bh.


While you cannot control everything that your kids do, you probably have a class list, and know that there are 21, not 15, kids in the class. So in this case, the parents probably were complicit.
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