Please help me... I feel like I lost my child

amother

Aqua

Wed, Mar 27 2019, 10:16 pm

leah233 wrote:

Maybe this thread and forum is the wrong place to post this so I'll preface that this comment isn't meant for the hostile unreceptive posters .Yes I know you will think this is wrong. You don't have to bother telling me.

One of the major gedolim who lived two hundred years ago gave the following guideline for whether an OTD child is probably is the fault of the parent or child:

If a child who was always a difficult , problem child goes OTD then it was probably the fault of the child's bad nature. The parents can not be blamed with "they should have done this or realized that"

If the child was basically a good child growing up then as an older teenager they decided to drop religion then it was probably a deficiency in the way they were brought up. They and those who follow their chinuch style should be careful

Obviously this wasn't meant as a definitive statement but as a general rule.

I was a tough teenager. What I needed was a warm, nurturing mother. Caring and accepting, interested in me and gracious. What I had was a mother who was tough and expected nothing less than total obedience and saying things exactly how she wanted them to be said. She’s not a bad person, she’s just a tough person dealing with her own problems, with exhaustion also plying a huge part.

We fought a lot growing up. A lot. I was told that I was a monster. A lot. I was told that I was rebellious and bad and that I was terrible at kibbud av v’aim. I was told that I was loved, but not liked (“I love you but I don’t like you”. To this day I believe this is the most hurtful statement to say to someone). I was told I’d be lucky to find someone who would marry someone like me. And yet I was also told that I was smart and capable, beautiful and slim. I was told I could accomplish anything.

If you asked my parents, I was always a difficult child. If you asked someone with a different personality than my parents, you might have heard something else.

Relationships are complicated. It never even occurred to me to go off the derech. It doesn’t mean someone did something wrong or right, sometimes it’s just luck of the draw. In the end of the day, our choices are not just about our personalities and our parents and our relationships, but also who Hashem puts in our path. This friend, that teacher, that book. And Hashem sometimes puts thoughts in our heads as well.

OP - all I can tell you is that your child craves you. Despite all the bravado, he wants a hug. He wants a kiss. He wants to know that he has a safe port in a storm. He craves love and to be told that he is good. He has such good inside of him.

That is all.

Zehava

Wed, Mar 27 2019, 10:28 pm

amother wrote:

I’d give you a hug if I could
I hope that you have people in your life who can tell you how loved and liked and good you are every day.

crust

Wed, Mar 27 2019, 10:34 pm

amother wrote:

Oy gevald! This post takes the cake here.
What a strength of character!
Poor poor parents. They had a gem and they failed to appreciate and cherish it.

amother

Aqua

Wed, Mar 27 2019, 10:44 pm

Zehava wrote:

I’d give you a hug if I could
I hope that you have people in your life who can tell you how loved and liked and good you are every day.

Ugh, I think my post came off more “woe is me”. Entirely not. I think I was trying to convey that you can have a mother who is a fine decent person, and yet have a volatile relationship with that person. Much like the OP. And then there’s that misnomer - the “difficult” child. For some, it’s p*rn and cutting off peyos. For others, it’s pants and not davening. It doesn’t mean anything.

I want to restate that despite the negative, my parents reinforced a lot of positive about me.

And Hashem blessed me with the most loving husband, who helps me every day maintain כיבוד אב ואם.

It was also just a reminder to the OP how a rebellious child isn’t always rebellious against you personally. Sometimes they just have to work through the kinks in the orthodox system. Without being labeled.

amother

Aqua

Wed, Mar 27 2019, 10:49 pm

crust wrote:

Oy gevald! This post takes the cake here.
What a strength of character!
Poor poor parents. They had a gem and they failed to appreciate and cherish it.

I’d love to take credit for staying true to Torah values, but like I said, it’s not always a battle for someone labeled difficult. For me, my closest friends were all frum, I married young to the best, frum man. There was never really any desire to leave the fold. Not because I’m amazing, but because I wasn’t tested that way.

Not every difficult child becomes an OTD adult.

I am tested with being kind to my parents. It’s hard work, and I fail constantly. And because of my personality, I struggle with kindness - with offering kindness and chesed to people going through rough times. We all have our things.

Crust, wanted to take this time to say I love all your posts. You’re awesome.

amother

Copper

Thu, Mar 28 2019, 12:15 am

crust wrote:

Amother copper I love your post.

It made me teary eyed just thinking of the koches hanefesh that dealing with all this causes. And the avodas hamidos! Yes, acceptance is all about middos.

I really admire you for what you are doing. Wow.

Thank you so much Crust. I am finding these discussions here, regardless of disagreements in approach or philosophy, to be helpful and therapeutic.

One of the hidden sorrows of struggling with a struggling teen's choices and behavior is the shame and alienation. There are not many people that you can really talk to, because they cannot relate, because you don't want to breach your child's trust, because you feel like a failure, and because sometimes, you are being judged.

Which is a familiar feeling, because you already spend so much time judging yourself: What can I do differently? What should I have done differently? What am I doing wrong? with the obvious internal subtext being: "this is my fault, I failed her, I caused this."

And feeling, and being, alienated from the lives of healthy functioning children and families, that seems to exist for everyone else, effortlessly, around you.

So thank you all, for caring and reading, and being part of this discussion. It means a lot.

Zehava

Thu, Mar 28 2019, 7:53 am

amother wrote:

I get exactly what you’re trying to say. It’s still so hard to grow up with that kind of self image. It takes a lifetime to get the voices in your head to change.

Zehava

Thu, Mar 28 2019, 8:17 am

amother wrote:

Being tough is a coping mechanism, a defense your psyche created to shield you from all the hurt inflicted by those who you trusted. It’s hard to let go of that toughness even when you’re out of danger. Especially if you’re still interacting with those who have hurt you. It’s not your personality. It’s one more lie you’ve been telling yourself. You wouldn’t be here telling us about your pain if it was your personality.

aricelli

Thu, Mar 28 2019, 8:39 am

Zehava wrote:

Denial is a real thing... it hurts a lot to face truths...

urban gypsy

Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:51 am

amother wrote:

I was told that I was rebellious and bad and that I was terrible at kibbud av v’aim. I was told that I was loved, but not liked (“I love you but I don’t like you”. To this day I believe this is the most hurtful statement to say to someone). I was told I’d be lucky to find someone who would marry someone like me. And yet I was also told that I was smart and capable, beautiful and slim. I was told I could accomplish anything.

The mixed messages are so terribly damaging, worse in a way than the negative messages alone. They are crazy making and cause you to doubt yourself.
Thanks for sharing your story... lots to think about Hug

IrenaFr

Fri, Mar 29 2019, 10:39 am

We were totally secular when my 13 years old son, who was very good boy , started behaving totally rebellious and irrational. We liked hiking in the nature - he said he hates it and prefers downtown . Everything what we liked and did, he suddenly hated . So it's nothing to do with religion at this age, as I think. It's some kind of distancing himself from the parents. Yes, I had very loving and close relationship before his 13. But I could write the same as OP - I lost the child that I had and got a new, totally strange person at this age .

amother

Cobalt

Fri, Mar 29 2019, 10:43 am

amother wrote:

actually no
some of us are parents who were "good kids" who raised challenging children successfully in part by showing them "unconditional love" -- by learning and striving more often than not to tap into and ground our speech though and action in the reality that we do love our children struggling or not.
hugs and hatzlocha to everyone

Please answer this question. You have a teenager who is frequently looking for a fight, physically assaulting you, cursing you and spitting in your face while they are making all sorts of endless outrageous demands to you .

How do you go about showing unconditional love and acceptance in that situation?

nchr

Fri, Mar 29 2019, 11:42 am

aricelli wrote:

My question still remains: can a child be diagnosed with a personality disorder?

Not, but they can begin engaging in the behavioral patterns that may eventually lead them to be diagnosed with one as an adult. I hate saying this, but honestly, parents and childhood experiences really do shape people. Being around calm, loving, welcoming, etc. adults helps a child develop properly. If a parent has a child with tough tendencies, the parent needs to work on themselves to be calm and happy all the time and just shower the kid with love - and some direction.

Zehava

Fri, Mar 29 2019, 11:46 am

amother wrote:

My sense after reading this thread is that some of those preaching unconditional love and acceptance were very difficult children themselves who are now looking to put all the blame for the strained relationship that their behavior caused on their parents.

It’s pretty obvious why your own relationship with your teen is strained. Harsh, but true. You think parents and children, or just “difficult” children, are one different opposing sides.
The pain of a child who feels their parent is at war with them is indescribable.

aricelli

Fri, Mar 29 2019, 11:48 am

nchr wrote:

If a child can begin exhibiting these behaviors why cant they be diagnosed as a child?