Please help me... I feel like I lost my child

Zehava

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 10:58 am

amother wrote:

BTDT.

OP, its been many years since my saga began, and I hope your saga ends better than where were at, ups and downs, but more downs than ups.

Another ugly thing Ive had to deal with is judgmentalism from friends and neighbors (and some relatives who distance themselves), who if they have the "perfect" frum children, say (Ive heard back) that parents must have messed up, which hurts like knives in the heart, as much as I try not to be bothered by what others think.

Now after years of totally immersing myself and putting in years of efforts and love and kindness that has not yet borne fruit, I cant any more. I do a lot of pretending with the child that Im content with things the way they are.

Now that my focus on the child is no longer taking over my life, because I feel I already gave it all I had, its the outsiders uppity superiority and judgmentalism that seriously hurts me more and more. No Im not imagining it.

Hatzlacha. Many have happy endings.

Your love and kindness hasn’t borne fruit? What kind of fruit?
And do you think your child doesn’t know you’re pretending?
There goes my soapbox again

amother

White

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 11:23 am

Op please rephrase that, you haven't lost your child! Each child comes with their own unique challenges and this is his as well as yours to deal with together. He may be in pain and may need you more than you know. He is a gift to you and treat him well.
Don't view his actions as a personal attack on you, see it as a stage and phase that with lots of love will settle into a mature man, whichever direction he chooses to take.
My sibling went through this as well and we were there for him and loved him unconditionally. He didnt choose the same path we did and thats ok so long as hes doing well emotionally, that matters most.
I know it isnt easy to accept but the sooner you come to terms with it the easier it will be on all of you.
I wish you loads of hatzlacha in raising him

amother

Copper

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 11:46 am

amother wrote:

I'm so sorry. I could have written this. I've been there, still am there, and I relate to everything you said. I'd say you aren't alone, but we really are alone, aren't we?

amother

Pewter

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 12:12 pm

amother wrote:

I'm so sorry. I could have written this. I've been there, still am there, and I relate to everything you said. I'd say you aren't alone, but we really are alone, aren't we?

I guess were alone together.

We went to Fishoff's group (not sure his advice helped or hurt) but we didnt really belong because my child never did anything outrageous, never took drugs, just left frumkeit, and has always been either a student or a working professional.

amother

Cobalt

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 12:28 pm

Zehava wrote:

Your love and kindness hasn’t borne fruit? What kind of fruit?
And do you think your child doesn’t know you’re pretending?
There goes my soapbox again

Not the OP but as someone in a similar situation to her I find your smug judgmental comments to be very hurtful and nonhelpful .

Even if you were right you could use a lot more sensitivity when making your point.

Pretend to practice what you preach.

amother

Pewter

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 12:34 pm

amother wrote:

Thank you Thank you Thank you.

The post you mention is a perfect example of the insensitive "know it alls" people like those in my situation are surrounded by, who dont know what our last few years have been like, or they would have never said what they did and certainly not the way they said it, and hopefully will never know!

kollel wife

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 12:58 pm

This also reminds me of my son. He is now 23 and studying to be an engineer and is still shomer Shabbos, Baruch Hashem. The defiancy was a personality trait evident already at age 2 - there was no abuse. Just he was always difficult, didn't get into learning or schoolwork, so got into other things. The only solution is to create a relationship with him as best you can, but also try to set certain boundaries, rules for him, explaining that these are important for him and for the rest of the family. It's hard to show someone love when they're defiant. Keep trying to show and to feel love. Also showing that the defiancy doesn't hurt you, takes the fun out of it for him. Try to find a school setting he'll be happy in.

amother

Copper

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 1:11 pm

amother wrote:

Alone together. That's nice Smile

I'm going to remember that. B'h that your child didn't do drugs, etc, but I understand. "Just left frumkeit" is like a punch in the gut, a pain that never quite goes away, sometimes a dull ache, and sometimes a sharp pain that seems to hit you out of nowhere.

Kol hakavod to you for doing your best in a reality that is heartbreaking. Other people's criticism and judgements are like the icing on the cake, the ironic extra kick when you are down.

amother

Copper

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 1:42 pm

Zehava wrote:

And what is it that I preach?

Well, you were saying that her child knows that she is pretending, and your post also came across as sort of mocking her statement that her efforts haven't born fruit.

It seemed harsh, because here she is saying that she tried so very hard to impart her religious values to her child, and while that did not work (something that is a source of great pain to her), she still does her best to accept him, even if she is "pretending" to accept his lack of frumkeit. I assume she is doing this because she loves him and wants to be in his life. How is that anything but commendable?

How exactly should she be doing differently? Are you saying she should gleefully and wholeheartedly accept his rejection of frumkeit, even though that is a very painful reality for her?

Zehava

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 2:00 pm

amother wrote:

I wasn’t mocking anything I was asking what kind of fruit she was expecting.
At the end of the day our children aren’t ours to mold into the shape we want.
And when we put in so much time and energy to mold them into said shape we start to think they owe us. They owe us to change. They owe us to live their entire lives they way we want them to.
So she’s all worn out by the fact that she’s trying to change her kid and he, ungrateful bastard, insists on making his own choices.
No one wants to be pretend-accepted. No one. Least of all by the very people who should love them blind.
She doesn’t have to gleefully accept his choices.
But she does have to gleefully accept HIM. Her son. Her flesh and blood.
And she has to let go. Realize that her job raising him is done and god gives us all free will.
It’ll make her life way easier too. It’s really difficult holding on to something that is way beyond your reach, like trying to control the weather. It won’t work and it’ll just make her miserable.
Off my soapbox now

amother

Copper

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 2:14 pm

Zehava wrote:

It is certainly true that others (even our own children) are not under our control. And I will agree that acceptance makes life easier, although not always for the right reasons. I won't elaborate unnecessarily on that, lest my bitterness and cynicism begin to show through.

But I DO admit to finding it hard to believe that, unless you are very young (which I don't wish upon anybody), or exceptionally blessed (which I most certainly do), you have never had to "pretend" to accept something about somebody just because you love them.

Perhaps it is the word pretend that you are reacting to. In that case, it's just semantics. Even the word "accept" implies a measure of disagreement, one that you forego, simply because you do not get to make up other people's minds for them. Because call it what you like, we as human beings pretend all the time. We'd never make it in society otherwise.

amother

Pewter

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 2:28 pm

amother wrote:

Because call it what you like, we as human beings pretend all the time. We'd never make it in society otherwise.

A. I couldnt agree more. In this case, when surrounded by everyone who feels that the Torah way is the best way, and the most fulfilling at the end of our days, and internalizing that for many years, how can we be totally accepting and approving of a different way, even if we love the child as much as our life? Loving the child to the maximum and total approval of their choices dont necessarily work together.

B. People who havent experienced a problem should never advise with harshness. Especially when the problem spoken of is an old problem that they gave their all to, and theyre saying in addition to giving it their all, theyre sickened by the intense pain of criticism. They really dont need more. Its quite heartless.

Zehava

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 2:54 pm

amother wrote:

You don’t wish on anybody to be young?
Yes I do take issue with the word pretend. Maybe because I’ve seen so many families pretending to accept their children and it’s just so painfully obvious how fake it is.
No I never “had” to pretend to accept someone I love. Genuinely accepting my loved ones is my life’s work. Consciously and even subconsciously, I always check myself and ask myself if I am genuinely accepting the person with all of their quirks and flaws, perfectly imperfect.
No it doesn’t come naturally for me. It’s not something I was raised with. I’ll bet it comes easier to some people.