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Please help me... I feel like I lost my child
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amother




Brown


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 8:26 pm
Edited in light of the below
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honeymoon




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 8:42 pm
amother wrote:
New poster. I've been following this thread without intent of joining in.

But I had to say something. Pewter this is wrong. That post is 7 years old. You're freely posting behind amother while Zehava used her username.

Digging up old past history to bolster an argument and prove your point, is that a tactic you employ often?

You could have said that you admire her based on her past posts without the quote. Please do the right thing, and take it down.


I agree. What you did was wrong, wrong, wrong.
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amother




Pewter


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 8:45 pm
Done.

I apologize.

I was wrong.

True.
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Zehava




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 9:08 pm
I don’t care for admiration, warranted or not. Nor for the sympathy of anonymous people. Just trying to get a point across is all. Accept the truth no matter where it’s coming from.
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amother




Gray


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 9:44 pm
Zehava wrote:
Well yes ofcourse
But my first concern would be for my child.
I would question myself a lot as a parent. Am I doing enough to help my child with their self-destructive behavior? Am I getting them the right intervention? Am I making this about me or is my focus truly on them?
And if once they manage to get over those self-destructive behaviors and reach emotional health, they decide to lead a different lifestyle than me I would respect that fully and be proud of their success.




Of course. And if the answer was yes, and those advising you was yes, you are being a terrific parent, then sure you would be proud if they reached emotional health. But if they did not, you would be sad. That's all you need to know
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Zehava




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 10:07 pm
amother wrote:
Of course. And if the answer was yes, and those advising you was yes, you are being a terrific parent, then sure you would be proud if they reached emotional health. But if they did not, you would be sad. That's all you need to know

I would be sad if my child was unhappy and continuing to self-destruct. As the saying goes a mother is only as happy as her saddest child.
So you’ll tell me that so many otd kids are sad and angry. And I will tell you that yes maybe some of them have mental illness or mood disorders. But others are sad and angry because their parents can never see them for who they are. They will always be the disappointment, the pain. And that knowledge itself can really mess with the brain of a vulnerable teen who is already going through a lot.
Mental illness is treatable, more so when their is trust between parent and child. So a child should not be condemned to suffer forever.
So you see at the end of the day my happiness and the emotional health of my child are intertwined. The happier I am with them the more emotionally healthy they will be and vice versa.
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amother




Gray


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 10:26 pm
I agree 100% that a parent must accept a child 'baasher hu sham'. especially if he is following a different brand of Torah to his parents, and even if he has rejected the torah completely.

I do not agree that all mental illness is (easily) curable at this point in history.

I do not fully agree about intertwining either... but a parent being happy is of course good.
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Zehava




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 10:51 pm
amother wrote:
I agree 100% that a parent must accept a child 'baasher hu sham'. especially if he is following a different brand of Torah to his parents, and even if he has rejected the torah completely.

I do not agree that all mental illness is (easily) curable at this point in history.

I do not fully agree about intertwining either... but a parent being happy is of course good.


Treatable, not curable.
About the intertwining I have so much to say but posters here have a habit of using anything I post against me even years later so I have to be cautious.
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gold21




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 11:01 pm
dancingqueen wrote:
13 year old boys are known to be crazy h*rny. Looking at [filth] at that age, while not desirable in many ways, is also normal.


Off topic... But as the mother of a boy around this age, obviously the "crazy h*rny" idea throws me off a little. Cool

Just want to mention that many bar mitzvah boys haven't fully hit puberty yet. Many only hit puberty full-on a year or two after their bar mitzvah, and that's quite common. Some have fully hit puberty by their bar mitzvah, and that's fine too, but many are still at the beginning of full-fledged puberty at their bar mitzvah.

That's why so many bar mitzvah boys seem so young, and lein & speak with their cute childish voices, and two years later they're full grown and look & sound like little men.
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byisrael




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Mar 26 2019, 2:00 am
1st of all hugs!

2nd make sure you are getting the correct hadracha handling him

3rd ignore the people who are telling you its abnormal to watch p*rn at 13, sign of abuse ect. That is super typical behavior for his age.....

4rth he will come back! If you do things right you will no longer feel like you lost him. I can't promise he will be religious but he will get to an age where he is no longer constantly obnoxiously cursing at you (unfortunatly you have a good 10 years of teenagehood left- Daven!!!)
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amother




Lavender


Post  Tue, Mar 26 2019, 9:13 am
Dear op:
Please check him for mood disorder by a psychiatrist/neurologist before any therapist decides on abuse or dysfunctional home etc.
Mood disorders are more and more common in children. I am not sure why. Possibly because body/mind gives way due to our gmo food.
(Now dont go out and buy organic. It will just make the entire family neurotic.)
If you are in brooklyn there is a top notch pediatric neurologist that works in Maimonides
Children center 948 48th street. takes all insurance.
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hotzenplotz




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Mar 26 2019, 9:13 am
amother wrote:
Dear op:
Please check him for mood disorder by a psychiatrist/neurologist before any therapist decides on abuse or dysfunctional home etc.
Mood disorders are more and more common in children. I am not sure why. Possibly because body/mind gives way due to our gmo food.
(Now dont go out and buy organic. It will just make the entire family neurotic.)
If you are in brooklyn there is a top notch pediatric neurologist that works in Maimonides
Children center 948 48th street. takes all insurance.


you can pm me for the name. thank you. hotzenplotz.
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amother




Mustard


Post  Tue, Mar 26 2019, 10:07 am
I feel for you Op. It is so tough. It would really help to reframe as in "my child is really struggling, what can we do to help him"
you may need a good therapist or guide to help in this - I would hit the ground running and hard to maximize success before he gets older and behavior more entrenched cvs
coming from this place you will treat him differently and see different solutions IY"H
hugs and hatzlocha
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amother




Beige


Post  Tue, Mar 26 2019, 10:40 am
This was my ds 10 years ago..It was such a painful time, scary, so much trauma. Ds was kicked out of yeshiva, there had been bullying, but also he had anxiety ( still does), new community...many factors.
He did everything you describe and much more. B'kitzur, we allowed him to go to a co_ed day school. At first he almost flunked out, but then he saw himself as a a potential scholar.
He is now a grad student at Columbia, not frum but connected, has a non_Jewish gf, still has anxiety ( wont follow through to get treatment).
I am grateful he has a passion (academia), and have let go completely of any religious expectations. He comes with gf for shabbes sometimes and yom tov. It,s a different paradigm.
Lots of tefilla, know your boundaries regarding detech eretz, keep your standards and allow him his, use only frum therapists ( secular made things worse for us). Love him no matter what.
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ShishKabob




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Mar 26 2019, 11:31 am
OP, I didn't read the entire thread. However, on chazak line there is an amazing, helpful story of a women from Belgium that went thru basically the same thing. It's more towards the later stories. I'm sorry that I don't have the story number for you.
She gives such chizuk, I was so inspired and uplifted by her outlook in life.
Perhaps it will give you chizuk as well.
Hatzlocha and Brocha should surround you in all areas.
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amother




Tan


Post  Tue, Mar 26 2019, 3:49 pm
It must be really hard for your part of culture that your son is doing things differently.
As someone who did a minor in zx and minors I can say it is completly normal.
It is normal for children at that age to get interested in p0rn or watching that (I have academic resources) the difference is, is that this is not accepted in the frum culture.
But there are lot of things which is not allowed in the frum culture and there is a huge pressure.
Your son rebellious he wants to look for his own identity, just go in conversation with him ''What do you want?'' ''What moves you?'' Like really personal conversation. Look for a family coach frum or not frum but my advise may sound weird ( im BT btw) but don;t go to a rav. My dh parents always put the issues on religion like when my inlaw siblings got very very abusive (eating trief in the house blaming their parents using drugs, eating disorders) my MIL/DIL went to ravs it got worse and worse because they wanted to be listened to as person and not like 'It will get better if you say this and this prayer' or 'Hashem wants us to do'' that is just my advice ok love you bye.
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amother




Mustard


Post  Tue, Mar 26 2019, 6:09 pm
its not normal in frum families
and neither is your post
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amother




Ginger


Post  Tue, Mar 26 2019, 6:37 pm
I think we can all relate one way or another to mourning the child we thought we were going to have. Hugs!
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Mommyg8




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Mar 26 2019, 11:22 pm
amother wrote:
It must be really hard for your part of culture that your son is doing things differently.
As someone who did a minor in zx and minors I can say it is completly normal.
It is normal for children at that age to get interested in p0rn or watching that (I have academic resources) the difference is, is that this is not accepted in the frum culture.
But there are lot of things which is not allowed in the frum culture and there is a huge pressure.
Your son rebellious he wants to look for his own identity, just go in conversation with him ''What do you want?'' ''What moves you?'' Like really personal conversation. Look for a family coach frum or not frum but my advise may sound weird ( im BT btw) but don;t go to a rav. My dh parents always put the issues on religion like when my inlaw siblings got very very abusive (eating trief in the house blaming their parents using drugs, eating disorders) my MIL/DIL went to ravs it got worse and worse because they wanted to be listened to as person and not like 'It will get better if you say this and this prayer' or 'Hashem wants us to do'' that is just my advice ok love you bye.


I'm sorry but your minor in sx has warped your thinking.

Tayvos are normal, but to follow tayvos to the nth degree is extremely destructive in every possible way. I'm living in a sheltered community, but imamother has opened my eyes to some of the depravity that is out there. In short, the p0rn available today is not related in any way shape or form to the p0rn that was available in my generation. All this Is so completely new and frightening that there is no way to know the long term repurcussions, and unfortunately the preliminary anecdotal evidence is really not good, to put it mildly.

Many of you on this thread seem to think this is a frumkeit issue. While of course we do want our children to grow up frum, I think we can all agree that everyone, Jew or non-Jew, white or black, wants their children to grow up to be decent human beings. And this particular boy, from the way OP described him, is on the fast lane to... not.

I simply don't understand how anyone can advocate unconditional acceptance. Unconditional love - yes, we should all love our children no matter what, and hopefully we do. But don't we want our children to grow up as decent human beings? Good husbands, and good fathers? To become the very best and accomplish the most that they can?

How can parents just watch and allow their children to self destruct? Do you really love your child if you allow this to happen? Do you really love your child if you don't at least try to change him to be a better person? I just don't understand some of the attitudes here on this thread.
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Mar 26 2019, 11:28 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
I'm sorry but your minor in sx has warped your thinking.

Tayvos are normal, but to follow tayvos to the nth degree is extremely destructive in every possible way. I'm living in a sheltered community, but imamother has opened my eyes to some of the depravity that is out there. In short, the p0rn available today is not related in any way shape or form to the p0rn that was available in my generation. All this Is so completely new and frightening that there is no way to know the long term repurcussions, and unfortunately the preliminary anecdotal evidence is really not good, to put it mildly.

Many of you on this thread seem to think this is a frumkeit issue. While of course we do want our children to grow up frum, I think we can all agree that everyone, Jew or non-Jew, white or black, wants their children to grow up to be decent human beings. And this particular boy, from the way OP described him, is on the fast lane to... not.

I simply don't understand how anyone can advocate unconditional acceptance. Unconditional love - yes, we should all love our children no matter what, and hopefully we do. But don't we want our children to grow up as decent human beings? Good husbands, and good fathers? To become the very best and accomplish the most that they can?

How can parents just watch and allow their children to self destruct? Do you really love your child if you allow this to happen? Do you really love your child if you don't at least try to change him to be a better person? I just don't understand some of the attitudes here on this thread.

I'm with you monnyg8
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