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Rutabaga




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 1:49 pm
Talk to your son and DIL. Tell them that as much as you love having them it's getting to be too much for you as you get older. Tell them that either they need to pitch in a lot more or you won't be able to accommodate them for Pesach anymore because you just don't have the koach. I guarantee you that if it's a choice of helping out more or making their own Pesach then they'll choose to help out. Make sure your husband is on board as well to point out how hard you're working and how much you both appreciate the next generation making it easier.
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oneofakind




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 2:11 pm
From one 51 yr. old to another, your feelings are totally normal but feeling stuck and helpless is not good for you. Passivity breeds resentment and anxiety and unhealthy character traits. Your son and family needs his own space. I wonder if your DIL picks up on how you don't like the mess but she probably thinks, "We're all stuck here together in a 2 bedroom. What does she expect?"
I've started nicely making statements to my children that make my life easier, "For the upcoming ...who'se making what?" as opposed to doing it all myself and feeling exhausted. I have more understanding about the messes kids make when I babysat and watched my grandkids like a hawk and they still destroyed the room in 5 minutes but I will say, "I know you don't clean up because the kids make a mess again but it bothers me when I walk into the room and it looks like that."

Can you go for a massage on chol hamoed or treat yourself another way...you don't have to spend the entire 10 days with them.
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 2:13 pm
Rutabaga wrote:
Talk to your son and DIL. Tell them that as much as you love having them it's getting to be too much for you as you get older. Tell them that either they need to pitch in a lot more or you won't be able to accommodate them for Pesach anymore because you just don't have the koach. I guarantee you that if it's a choice of helping out more or making their own Pesach then they'll choose to help out. Make sure your husband is on board as well to point out how hard you're working and how much you both appreciate the next generation making it easier.


I don’t need them to help out
I need them to just not be so messy
Clothes thrown all over the room
Then they allow there son to open EVERY game and pieces get lost. Games that he’s too young to play with and that I’ve had since my kids were little.
There in a closet high up.
I don’t mind they play with it one at a time.

Things always get broken. Like the last time they were here the door stopper and the handles of 2 sliding doors, it’s a brand new apartment.
Then I walk into the kitchen and on the counter there’s an open banana with 1/4 eaten and 1/2 an avocado completely open. 1/2 an hr later they take a new one because those went brown A little Saran Wrap and put it in the fridge for later solves the problem. This is daily 2-3 times a day. It’s just wasted food.
They have 2 kids 4 and 1
They are constantly asking my cleaning lady to do things for them. This is just an example.

Add this to all the pressures of Pesach and it’s just too much.

They came winter break, it was the same, but I could handle it because that’s all I really had to do. I offered for them to go to Disney World all paid for a few days to give me a little break. They said no because the kids were too little

So then I offered day trips, they take forever to leave the house that it wasn’t worth to go. They then go out for an hr and are back for meals.
I would like 4 hrs to get the house back in order with the maid.

My other DD has 4 kids but it’s a pleasure to have them. Ages 7,5,3, 6 months
I literally have to force her to relax. She’s so afraid that her kids will bother me, make a mess, break or dirty something.
Plus if I’m not on top of her to stop her, she’s in the kitchen making something for everyone and doing it so cleanly you wouldnt even notice she was in there.
This DD comes Shavuot, she comes with homemade prepared stuff just in case her kids or husband are picky, but of course enough for everyone.

I’m not asking for the other couple to be the same, just a little less taxing.

So truth be told I wish I can go to have an excuse not to have them for Pesach

They come 2nd days Sukkot and Winter break

I tried to hint that they should go to her parents. She has a very large family and from what I understand they all move into the parents house and she needs to pitch in cause her sisters force her.
So yea she’s looking for a vacation.

And don’t get me wrong, I love her to pieces, especially that she lives my son and puts up with him. And of course the kids are the cutest.
I would even go with them. I enjoy her company, just don’t want to be her maid
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Sebastian




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 2:35 pm
Would your ds understand if you told him something or just get defensive?
If you got them their own apt would they stay there or just hang out by you the whole time?
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 2:51 pm
Sebastian wrote:
Would your ds understand if you told him something or just get defensive?
If you got them their own apt would they stay there or just hang out by you the whole time?


I’m afraid they would ruin something in the apartment.
A lot of apartments are empty for Pesach, but these ppl are older ppl that come to FL in the winter. There all congregants.
Most of them give it to their kids or married grandkids. They are very nice apartments, redone, high end, many have white furniture couches etc.
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amother




Sapphire


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 2:55 pm
amother wrote:
Sorry I didn’t mention this
DH is the Rav in a big community
A lot of ppl come in on vacation during Chagim
In shul, there are over 1000 ppl., during Pesach
He can’t leave.


I know it is unconventional but is it not possible one year for the Rebbetzin (ie you) to have another commitment over Pesach? Nobody needs to know it’s a commitment to relax at a nice Pesach hotel. And then he can join you as usual for the four days at the end.
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 3:07 pm
amother wrote:
I know it is unconventional but is it not possible one year for the Rebbetzin (ie you) to have another commitment over Pesach? Nobody needs to know it’s a commitment to relax at a nice Pesach hotel. And then he can join you as usual for the four days at the end.


WE can’t leave,I also take care of the Mikvah
There’s a lot of ppl that come from NY. It’s very very busy.
None of the junior rabbis or chazanim can leave either.
Everyone must be there for ALL YT.

I’ll get a vacation soon enough
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Sebastian




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 3:10 pm
amother wrote:
I know it is unconventional but is it not possible one year for the Rebbetzin (ie you) to have another commitment over Pesach? Nobody needs to know it’s a commitment to relax at a nice Pesach hotel. And then he can join you as usual for the four days at the end.


it doesn't sound like she wants to leave her husband. She just wants her son and dil not to be slobs.

OP, talk to your son. Tell him beforehand that ds can't play with toys in the closet and any food they take out has to be put away etc. Maybe buy him a few toys for him to play with on YT. It's okay if he gets insulted. You're his mother, he'll get over it. If he doesn't like it, he can go to his ils or stay home. It's your home you can have some rules.
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Sebastian




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 3:14 pm
OP, if you would offer to have them all Sukkot and only 1/2 Pesach would they agree?
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 3:19 pm
amother wrote:
I’m afraid they would ruin something in the apartment.
A lot of apartments are empty for Pesach, but these ppl are older ppl that come to FL in the winter. There all congregants.
Most of them give it to their kids or married grandkids. They are very nice apartments, redone, high end, many have white furniture couches etc.


Let them have your apartment ("you'll be so much more at home there!") and you rent someone else's. Have a cleaning crew on Monday after the seders, Thursday before it all starts again, and after they leave.

If you're not around, surely they will pick up after themselves.

Buy a few age-appropriate toys so they won't be trawling in the things that are too old for them.

In any case, at least you'll have some peace, and they'll have a little more room, which may help.
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 3:44 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
Let them have your apartment ("you'll be so much more at home there!") and you rent someone else's. Have a cleaning crew on Monday after the seders, Thursday before it all starts again, and after they leave.

If you're not around, surely they will pick up after themselves.

Buy a few age-appropriate toys so they won't be trawling in the things that are too old for them.

In any case, at least you'll have some peace, and they'll have a little more room, which may help.


I really appreciate everyone’s help

Sorry if I say this sounds ridiculous
I’m not leaving my home.
Sometimes I cook late at night, etc.
I have 2 trunk filled with age appropriate toys
It’s the parents giving it to them
They re all on a high high shelf.
Even if the child gets on a chair he can’t get it
Plus it’s a chocking hazard for the baby.

I think I’m just going to hire an extra maid.
One for them and one for me.
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amother




Beige


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 3:54 pm
Why do they come to you for winter break? Can you tell them it’s not a good year for pesach?
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Rutabaga




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 5:36 pm
amother wrote:
I don’t need them to help out
I need them to just not be so messy
Clothes thrown all over the room
Then they allow there son to open EVERY game and pieces get lost. Games that he’s too young to play with and that I’ve had since my kids were little.
There in a closet high up.
I don’t mind they play with it one at a time.

Things always get broken. Like the last time they were here the door stopper and the handles of 2 sliding doors, it’s a brand new apartment.
Then I walk into the kitchen and on the counter there’s an open banana with 1/4 eaten and 1/2 an avocado completely open. 1/2 an hr later they take a new one because those went brown A little Saran Wrap and put it in the fridge for later solves the problem. This is daily 2-3 times a day. It’s just wasted food.
They have 2 kids 4 and 1
They are constantly asking my cleaning lady to do things for them. This is just an example.

Add this to all the pressures of Pesach and it’s just too much.

They came winter break, it was the same, but I could handle it because that’s all I really had to do. I offered for them to go to Disney World all paid for a few days to give me a little break. They said no because the kids were too little

So then I offered day trips, they take forever to leave the house that it wasn’t worth to go. They then go out for an hr and are back for meals.
I would like 4 hrs to get the house back in order with the maid.

My other DD has 4 kids but it’s a pleasure to have them. Ages 7,5,3, 6 months
I literally have to force her to relax. She’s so afraid that her kids will bother me, make a mess, break or dirty something.
Plus if I’m not on top of her to stop her, she’s in the kitchen making something for everyone and doing it so cleanly you wouldnt even notice she was in there.
This DD comes Shavuot, she comes with homemade prepared stuff just in case her kids or husband are picky, but of course enough for everyone.

I’m not asking for the other couple to be the same, just a little less taxing.

So truth be told I wish I can go to have an excuse not to have them for Pesach

They come 2nd days Sukkot and Winter break

I tried to hint that they should go to her parents. She has a very large family and from what I understand they all move into the parents house and she needs to pitch in cause her sisters force her.
So yea she’s looking for a vacation.

And don’t get me wrong, I love her to pieces, especially that she lives my son and puts up with him. And of course the kids are the cutest.
I would even go with them. I enjoy her company, just don’t want to be her maid


Ah, now I see.

It seems like you are a neat and organized person and your DIL is decidedly not or she used to be but is overwhelmed with taking care of her small children. Squishing 4 adults and 2 children into a 2 bedroom apartment for 10 days is bound to result in tumult.

I don't know how your DIL runs her own home, but if she's anything like me she's constantly on her toes running from one crisis to another and leaving chaos in her wake. A 4 year old is old enough to want to play independently but not old enough to clean up after himself. A 1 year old is probably crawling or toddling all over the place and getting into everything. Is your apartment babyproof? I'm constantly leaving tasks half undone to take a child to the bathroom or prevent a child from hurting herself or because someone needs Mommy "right now" for some reason or another. In my own home I always get back to things eventually but I can totally envision how your banana scenario easily happens and how it annoys you while your DIL doesn't realize anything is amiss because she fully intends to deal with it in just a minute but then gets distracted by the next demand. Ok, maybe I'm projecting a little but I can totally see this playing out in dozens of ways every day and I completely understand why it would drive you nuts.

I think that in order to make the visit work for everyone you will both need to be proactive and let things go as much as possible. Pick a few things that bother you the most and figure out solutions that everyone can adhere to. For example, if you don't want them taking down toys from the top shelf then either tell them so in no uncertain terms or store them somewhere inaccessible for the duration of their trip. If they still make a mess with the little pieces then hand your son the box and tell him to clean it up. If you keep doing that then he'll be less likely to let his kids play with toys that have a million pieces as long as you have age appropriate toys available. I don't see how they can keep all their clothing for 4 people for 4 days in their room and also have room to sleep there, but maybe you can designate a corner of the living room as their spot to leave things and either remind them to put their stuff in the corner or keep dumping things there as you see them laying about. If you want them out of your hair for a while then help them get ready by packing up food and making sure they have everything they might need or hold the baby so they can get ready or take the 4 year old to the bathroom while they're busy loading the car or whatever else it takes.

I've already written a whole megillah, but in regards to them asking your maid for things maybe they don't feel comfortable in your kitchen, especially on Pesach. A son and DIL don't always have the same level of comfort as a daughter. Or maybe they don't want to bother you so they turn to the maid. Or maybe they're acting entitled and you need to remind them that the maid has a job to do and they shouldn't make extra work for her.
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Squishy




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 5:47 pm
amother wrote:
This would be wonderful, but I know he and his wife would be totally insulted. I know that’s there problem, but....
I love peace.
I just need to pick up my big girl panties and say it’s only 10 days.
On Sukkot it’s not as hard since we eat most of the meals out most of YT we are in shul either davening or eating
The kids run around a lot outside
By the time they get home everyone is ready for a nap
So the messes in the kitchen are most manageable.


BTW- my DH is totally wonderful, besides getting me help, and helping,
He treats me to a 4 day weekday outing after each YT. We go away to a nearby city and stay at a hotel for 4 days
We do absolutely nothing rest, shul, eat, rest


Dodger Blue you should tell them out right you can't live like this over Pesach. If they get upset, then they can't emotionally black mail you with the threat of them getting upset. Dil's other options are to stay home and do all the work or go to her parents and work or to go to a hotel where they pay to be treated like hotel guests. She can do a cost/benefit, and behaving like a decent guest will probably be her best option.
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cuffs




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 6:07 pm
amother wrote:
I don’t need them to help out
I need them to just not be so messy
Clothes thrown all over the room
Then they allow there son to open EVERY game and pieces get lost. Games that he’s too young to play with and that I’ve had since my kids were little.
There in a closet high up.
I don’t mind they play with it one at a time.

Things always get broken. Like the last time they were here the door stopper and the handles of 2 sliding doors, it’s a brand new apartment.
Then I walk into the kitchen and on the counter there’s an open banana with 1/4 eaten and 1/2 an avocado completely open. 1/2 an hr later they take a new one because those went brown A little Saran Wrap and put it in the fridge for later solves the problem. This is daily 2-3 times a day. It’s just wasted food.
They have 2 kids 4 and 1
They are constantly asking my cleaning lady to do things for them. This is just an example.

Add this to all the pressures of Pesach and it’s just too much.

They came winter break, it was the same, but I could handle it because that’s all I really had to do. I offered for them to go to Disney World all paid for a few days to give me a little break. They said no because the kids were too little

So then I offered day trips, they take forever to leave the house that it wasn’t worth to go. They then go out for an hr and are back for meals.
I would like 4 hrs to get the house back in order with the maid.

My other DD has 4 kids but it’s a pleasure to have them. Ages 7,5,3, 6 months
I literally have to force her to relax. She’s so afraid that her kids will bother me, make a mess, break or dirty something.
Plus if I’m not on top of her to stop her, she’s in the kitchen making something for everyone and doing it so cleanly you wouldnt even notice she was in there.
This DD comes Shavuot, she comes with homemade prepared stuff just in case her kids or husband are picky, but of course enough for everyone.

I’m not asking for the other couple to be the same, just a little less taxing.

So truth be told I wish I can go to have an excuse not to have them for Pesach

They come 2nd days Sukkot and Winter break

I tried to hint that they should go to her parents. She has a very large family and from what I understand they all move into the parents house and she needs to pitch in cause her sisters force her.
So yea she’s looking for a vacation.

And don’t get me wrong, I love her to pieces, especially that she lives my son and puts up with him. And of course the kids are the cutest.
I would even go with them. I enjoy her company, just don’t want to be her maid


If my mil felt the way you are describing how you feel when they come I would NOT want to go to her house for yt! I would rather make yt or stay at my parents the whole yt. I have a kids similar to your dil age and it's very challenging age and they need constant care. Your daughter is not the norm to have it so put together. You must tell your son that it's too overwhelming for you to host them. Better that way then it to come out in an ugly way over their stay.
And for future mid winter you can meet them somewhere and not have to host.
I just would feel absolutely horrible if my hostess felt this way and would much rather get insulted but then know that I'm not welcome.
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imasinger




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 7:54 pm
Let me get this straight.

So when DIL is with her own family, her sisters force her to pitch in.

But when she's with you, that's her "vacation.". So she and your DS take toys off high shelves without checking in with you, and lose the pieces, leave half eaten produce lying around the kitchen, toss their clothes all over the room, break your stuff (and, I assume, not offer to pay to replace it), and order around your cleaning help.

And you are reluctant to criticize DIL because she "loves and puts up with" your DS.

Question. Does this imply that your DS wasn't an easy child, and nay still not be an easy adult? And that DIL may have some weaknesses of her own?

Because this doesn't sound normal. You do no favors to anyone to keep gritting your teeth for everything.

You can put a sign on the closet shelf -- "please remove only one box at a time, and be sure all the pieces are back in place before putting away." You can announce "lunch will be served after all clothing has been picked up and put away." You can tell your cleaning help to say something like, "OP said if anyone else wants me to do something, they need to ask her first, I'm not allowed to do anything she didn't tell me to do." You can talk to your DS about it being derech eretz to replace anything his family breaks.

In other words, there's a middle ground between martyr and villain.

Your DIL's family appears to have found it. You can too.
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momof2+?




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 8:08 pm
The problem here is the lack of space. Call me out of I am wrong, but I think that a lot of parents of children this age tend to deal with messes once the children are put to bed. Leaving out 3 started bananas is a shame, but I am very familiar with scenarios where one child has a bathroom emergency or gets hurt, needs a diaper change, or each child is playing in a different part of the house and it is hard to keep track of everything at once. I wait until my husband is available before venturing to use the bathroom for 2 minutes.
I know that my mother-in-law is sensitive to messes and I make an effort to keep areas clean when she is around. I will say that it is a huge advantage that she barely comes downstairs where the playroom is. We sisters-in-law clean it up at the end of the day, and not after each toddler finishes playing with each toy. (We are also a few families there at once and more children than in your situation.)
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tichellady




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Mar 25 2019, 8:41 pm
Have you actually discussed any of this with your son or are you assuming they really want to come to you? If you are feeling as burnt out and resentful as you are describing I wonder if they pick up on it but feel that they are supposed to come to you and if everyone is unhappy with the situation but no one knows how to talk about it. I could be totally off here, just a thought
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Tue, Mar 26 2019, 7:55 am
tichellady wrote:
Have you actually discussed any of this with your son or are you assuming they really want to come to you? If you are feeling as burnt out and resentful as you are describing I wonder if they pick up on it but feel that they are supposed to come to you and if everyone is unhappy with the situation but no one knows how to talk about it. I could be totally off here, just a thought


Op here, yes they want to come.
Last year Pesach they did not come. None of the kids came.
1. I have a lot of joint issues and was in a crisis mode for a while, November - August
2. She was 3 weeks postpartum and I didn’t feel it was safe to put such a young infant on an airplane. They wanted to come reguardless. Stayed home instead. They could have gone to her mom’s, it’s an 8 hr car drive, but decided to make Pesach first time.
For me to say no was a big deal and I felt horrible.

And when they came for winter break they asked that if they come do they lose their turn for Pesach. Of course not.

There’s only 2 bedrooms, so the marrieds need to take turns to come.
My single DD, sleeps in my room.

The other 2 families (DDs)
1. Comes not YT, they are vegan and can’t stand so much meat being eaten.
2. The other tries to come Chanuka and Shavuot. May come a Little at the end of summer. When I lived in a big house she would come Last days of Sukkot and last days of Pesach, but also since the family grew she prefers to stay home. She says it’s too much work to pack.

We definitely have limited space, as someone mentioned, but it would cost me the same to go away as to rent a space for them, and I’m still left with the regular work of Pesach.
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amother




Plum


Post  Tue, Mar 26 2019, 9:41 am
Remember- for future years she does NOT need to come. No one does. This year we are hosting my parents (and in laws family for a Seder). I am quite young so when people hear they are surprised. Most people my age go to their parents for a vacation... I mean Pesach. I have been making Pesach since we were practically married (we would go one half or something to one side). It's just how it works out for us with turns, individual yearly situations etc.
and it's ok.
Coming from someone who is probably similar in age to your DIL....
Put up boundaries. Nice, but firm. Tell her what you need to make this year work for you. "This year I am super busy and tired so I need your help to make it smooth. Here is my vegetable shopping list and cash." "I am going out now to run an errand. Please fold the kitchen towels and sweep the floor while I am out".
Obviously she has two kids so the tasks should be reasonable and if she tried be understanding if it doesn't totally work out.
She can do the dishes, sweep, chop vegetables etc while her kids nap or after they go to bed. She may have no idea what you want. So ask her!
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