Monsey commuting to Passaic girls school

OBnursemom

Tue, Mar 26 2019, 9:34 pm

amother wrote:

It's not elitist and holier than though at all...
I cannot even begin to imagine how most girls, especially chassidish girls, will turn out if the schools would just accept every yiddisha neshama. You know very well that in today's day and age this is not the ideal way. That's why different schools cater to different people on all different levels. I don't want my girls going to school with girls that watch TV, listen to and sing secular music, talk about celebrities..... this does not make me elite and holier than thou, this just means that our hashkafa's are different.
Why is it so hard for people to send where they belong?????

It’s fine then. I don’t want my kids with yours anyway. They might learn to be a snot like you. And I’m not ashamed to use my name to say it.

amother

Ivory

Tue, Mar 26 2019, 10:09 pm

I'm sorry OBnursemom, but it's foolish and unrealistic to think that all types of girls of all different frumkeit levels, ranging from ultra chassidish to ultra modern, can go to school together. Please don't tell me that you really think this is normal, feasible, realistic, and makes sense. There are all types of schools for a reason. Parents choosing the right school for their kids that are in line with their hashkafa, does not make the parents elite, holier than thou, and snot as you call it. It makes the parents realistic & that they send where they belong. It's not possible for one school to cater to all types of jews of all levels of frumkeit and hashkafa because every parent will demand something else. Please think into it before you call me and my kids "snot".

amother

Sapphire

Wed, Mar 27 2019, 12:15 am

amother wrote:

And I would bet a million dollars that you live "in town" Very Happy

Guess what? People who live oot do this and their kids turn out beautifully BH.

amother

Beige

Wed, Mar 27 2019, 12:28 am

amother wrote:

And yet....... This was how the schools were 40+ years ago. And people turned out much finer than they do now.
I was in Chicago for a few years growing up, and the school had from ultra Chassidish (Rebbish Satmar) to super modern. And everyone turned out wonderful. I came from a very frum Torah home and it would never occur to my parents to tell the school don't take this girl or that girl.

So you want to say that it was different then than now? On the same end of the stick the frummest girls school today, the girls discuss what's out there. Because of the field I am in, and I won't specify because I've posted identifying details already, I know for an absolute fact that girls in every school I have dealt with (all Chassidish and BY schools included) there are class discussions on celebrities and beyond.
The only way to protect your kids is by giving them strength and pride in their upbringing. Not trying to shelter them by shutting out and snotting at others.

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Mar 27 2019, 12:50 am

amother wrote:

I'm sorry, but how do you think schools were years ago? All these many types of schools are a fairly new creation. It's done mostly to serve the parents, and not so much for the better of the students. Instead of the parents teaching their kids their hashkafahs as was always done till now, they ask the school to do the work for them. Moreover, they demand an environment where only their hashkafahs are present. This way, they create an elitist, holier than thou attitude, and then use this very attitude to keep the kids in line with it. The kids lack the tools to handle situations when other equally viable hashkafahs are presented to them in the course of life. The only way they can approach a situation like that is using the only recourse instilled in them - the elitist holier than thou attitude.

It's the parent's job to instill hashkafahs in their kids, to teach them why and how they value them. It's always their responsibility to give them to the tools to take pride in it and to be able to live and intermingle with people of other hashkafahs, while staying strong with theirs.

It is very possible for one school to cater to all types of Jews with all levels of frumkeit and hashkafah. Just think about the beautiful achdus'dige community we can build if we teach our children to accept everyone for who they are, while instilling in them our own personal hashkafahs. Compare that with the result with the addition of all these types of school. It has done the opposite. It's one of the driving forces of dividing us by creating new sects & divisions among us.

amother

Brown

Wed, Mar 27 2019, 12:53 am

amother wrote:

Amother mustard, if a school is on a certain hashkafa/frumkeit level and most parents are on the same level, it's understandable that parents are upset when the school starts accepting girls that are not on the same level. Parents are entitled to have a say. This does not make tuition paying parents snobby.
I would be very upset if my girls school would just accept anyone that applies. Everyone should send to where they belong.

Rav Steinman Zatzal says that this thinking is גאווה nothing to do with Yidiahkeit or Hashem.

https://youtu.be/5vPPFzTtZOs

Mommyg8

Wed, Mar 27 2019, 1:15 am

amother wrote:

This!

The school my mother went to was a real mix. Litvish and Chassidish in one class. Who says it wasn't better that way?

And surprise, there is every topic of conversation in every school. And there are girls who do everything in EVERY school. Closing your eyes doesn't make things not there Rolling Eyes

DVOM

Wed, Mar 27 2019, 8:08 am

I had an interesting conversation with a relative the other day. She sent her kid to a very insular, yeshivish school. Then (unfortunately) she sent her kid to camp simcha for about 8 summers. Camp simcha, of course, is as inclusive as it gets, with the campers ranging from chassidish to not religious at all. She said it was a real eye-opener for the whole family, who got to see all types of frum people working harmoniously together. Her son's staff member was modern orthodox (a mix match that I think doesn't happen too often. When I was a staff member in Camp Simcha they tried to pair up campers with hashkafically like-minded staffers) and he is her son's role model for sincere avodas hashem and refinement.

My next door neighbors are chassidish. My kids (and my husband and I) are learning so much good from them. I have never met nicer, kinder, more inclusive kids. Based on the amount of time their kids spend in our house, I'm assuming they are not threatened by our differing hashkafas.

I think we have so much to learn from each other, so much to gain. It's a shame we have to segregate our kids in different schools. What are we so afraid of?

ShishKabob

Wed, Mar 27 2019, 10:46 am

amother wrote:

Amother, what's if someone doesn't belong anywhere? Except that they are good, erlich and belong exclusively to Hashem and are part of the jewish nation! I know some people can't fathom that, but there is a percentage of klal Yisroel that don't belong to a specific party. Does that mean that they can't go to a jewish, frum school? please please....

L'havdil, they are not Republican and they are not Democrat, they don't even belong to the Independent Party! Does that mean they can't vote? They can't vote in some local primaries but they can on some.

This is my very unpopular opinion.

ShishKabob

Wed, Mar 27 2019, 11:17 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I agree.
I even think it's MUCH better to go to a place that has a mix. You have a chance to really become strong with who you are and be proud of it.
When I went to school decades ago, we also had a mix. Of course there were girls with TV's and other stuff. We chassidishe girls knew who we were and we knew that there were other modern girls as well. We were friends with them, however we didn't necessarily become like them or adopt their lifestyle either. Unless nowadays we are such weaklings that we get swept up with the wind whichever way it blows. but I don't think so, especially you see children from 'same type' schools going otd even if they weren't in the same class with other types. go figure.

amother

Green

Wed, Mar 27 2019, 11:30 am

shishkabob- we are who you are describing- we don't fit anywhere so we moved oot and go to a cholent mix school.
honest question- people who think its critical to send to a school where everyone has the same hashkafa does that actually work? Are there no rebellious kids who bring in shmutz? you see eye to eye with the other parents on everything or is it only specific things that you feel its critical to agree about?

we view it as our responsibility to raise our kids to follow our values, that includes being honest in business, being responsible including financially, thinking of others, not talking in shul during davening, eating healthy, exercising, being safe including wearing helmets, using booster seats, seatbelts... I can't imagine finding a schools worth of people who agree with us in practice on everything! our kids know we beat to our own drum and that includes religiously but it includes so much more as well.

Someone was complaining to me how the nosh isles... makes raising her kids to eat healthy so much harder. I told her welcome to parenthood, there's going to be many things other parents do and let their kids do that will make it harder might as well expect it.

OBnursemom

Thu, Mar 28 2019, 4:03 pm

amother wrote:

I'm sorry amother ivory, that you think my children's current schooling situation is foolish and unrealistic. I think my children are turning out beautifully. I don't think you are realistic to think children should go where they 'belong'. Separate but equal, I think it's called. You're basically a Jewish racist. You think you're better than other people, and your children should have protected status because of it. Hashem should have mercy on you, and not turn your gaava back on you. You are not better than me and my children. My children are Bnei melachim no matter where they go to school. Don't be offended when I call it how I see it.

amother

Ivory

Thu, Mar 28 2019, 4:17 pm

I don't think I'm better than anyone, no I don't.
But do you think that ultra chassidish yiddish speaking girls thet wear tights from the 3 years old can go to school together with modern girls in short socks, short sleeves, nail polish, that watch TV and sing secular songs???
Realistically the culture clash is too big and there's no way this will work out. Think about if this makes sense before jumping on me. This has nothing with gaava, I didn't say or think I'm better than anyone. Everyone is on a different level and that's ok. You are taking this way to personally, like I'm personally attacking you. So you're not even thinking into it. I chas veshalom do not mean anything personal against anyone. There's nothing wrong with parents not wanting their kids to be exposed to certain things thereby sending them to a school within the right environment.
The only place I can see this working out is in an out of town community where there are no ultra Frum or chassidish families, and everyone is basically on the same level.

amother

Amber

Thu, Mar 28 2019, 4:25 pm

amother wrote:

I don't think I'm better than anyone, no I don't.
But do you think that ultra chassidish yiddish speaking girls thet wear tights from the 3 years old can go to school together with modern girls in short socks, short sleeves, nail polish, that watch TV and sing secular songs???
Realistically the culture clash is too big and there's no way this will work out. Think about if this makes sense before jumping on me. This has nothing with gaava, I didn't say or think I'm better than anyone. Everyone is on a different level and that's ok. You are taking this way to personally. I chas veshalom do not mean anything personal against anyone.
The only place I can see this working out is in an out of town community where there are no ultra Frum or chassidish families, and everyone is basically on the same level.

Wouldnt it be beautiful if three year olds of both type would be taught together and twenty years down the road when theyre on imamother they would be more understanding of one another than some are

amother

Apricot

Thu, Mar 28 2019, 4:44 pm

I grew up in a black hat family going to the more modern school in town because of educational needs the yeshivish school couldn’t handle. My parents managed to raise in us a firm understanding of where Halacha is, and what we are required to do, as well as appreciating that every mitzvah someone does is better than not doing it. We learned we were expected to do certain things that no one else in our class had to, but we understood that they were just doing what they were taught. Yes, there were small things that we were embarrassed of doing differently, and on each one my parents sought advice of if it was something to fight or not. So my brother didn’t wear his black hat for Shachris and I had friends who were boys. But I was require to cover my elbows and couldn’t touch or be alone with male friends. And guess what, we grew out of those minor fights as soon as we left the environment.
All of us remained frum, some even more to the right than we grew up.
And now one of my siblings is facing a similar decision for her child, and leaning the same way.

Flip side, as a teacher, I saw a student from a right wing home in the modern orthodox school I taught in slowly move to the left and drop sensitivities and eventually Halacha. Parents’ attitude towards everything was “we’re paying you, it’s your job” so the kid picked up the hashkafos of her classmates instead of home.

If parents are willing to educate and teach hashkafa at home, then you can have mixed schools. If parents just want the school to do everything, then yes, you have to be exclusive.

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Mar 28 2019, 4:54 pm

amother wrote:

Forget about the extremes end of the spectrum such as watching TV. Right now the little toddler 3 year old with tights can't even go to school with another 3 year old little toddler who wear socks. There isn't much culture clash between the two, and there are very few 3 year olds who are aware of the different dress, unless you specifically make them aware of it.

The culture class is only there because you have made it to be such. There is nothing in the Torah about 3 year old wearing tights or socks, and having such petty little things define hashkafah is exactly what creates divisions and holier than thou attitudes.

And FYI - there are many OOT communities with families observing different levels of Frumkeit. And they're all schooled together and there isn't much culture clash involved. It's all in the attitude and mind, and not in any actual clashes.