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Jussie Smollett and the two tiered justice system
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 3:02 pm
ectomorph wrote:
Your black men example is a non sequitur.

I said that those who check off more social justice boxes are the beneficiaries, not black men. Black men only tick off one social justice box of being black, like white women only tick off one social justice box of being women.

It is a totally different issue.

Illegal aliens who are deemed more sympathetic than black men by social justice people have specific policies and leniencies directed at them, as specified in the Rollins memo above


And is the fact that blacks commit the most violent crimes which is one reason they are incarcerated at a higher rate.

To be fair, the laws are set up so that certain types of black crimes have a higher penalty than comparable white crimes. The classic example of this was when criminals would receive a disproportionate penalty for crack cocaine compared to an equivalent amount of uncooked powdered cocaine. Crack was a drug version of choice for the blacks while powder was the version of choice for the writes.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 3:11 pm
Mevater wrote:
Hes an idiot? Smollett? He clearly chose a lawyer who must have helped him, and knows who to kiss up to, to have gotten his charges dropped.

His charges getting dropped didnt happen without his behind the scenes efforts and pressure, or at the very least, choosing the right people to handle the case.


He's an idiot because he wrote a check to his pretend muggers. He is an idiot because he sent himself a threatening letter. He is an idiot because he didn't idiot-proof his hoax.

He is smart enough to get born to his parents who had connections. He didn't get off because his lawyer got his charges dropped. He got off because of a sleazy back room deal. That doesn't impress me. It disgusts me.
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Cheiny




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 3:20 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
Talk to me when Roseann is charged with numerous felonies.


This is an inane and pathetic comparison. What Roseanne did was make a remark some perceived to be racist. She did not commit a crime like Smollet did, and waste lots of taxpayer dollars and the time of numerous detectives on a hoax, while vilifying an entire group of people and trying to garner sympathy for herself like Smollet did by citing his race and gayness.

Had he not been black, gay, and a friend of the obamas and the vile anti Semite, he’d be in jail.
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shyshira




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 3:39 pm
Cheiny wrote:
This is an inane and pathetic comparison. What Roseanne did was make a remark some perceived to be racist. She did not commit a crime like Smollet did, and waste lots of taxpayer dollars and the time of numerous detectives on a hoax, while vilifying an entire group of people and trying to garner sympathy for herself like Smollet did by citing his race and gayness.

Had he not been black, gay, and a friend of the obamas and the vile anti Semite, he’d be in jail.


And if he's only black, and gay - Dayenu?
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 4:16 pm
simcha2 wrote:
So I just read the Rollins memo (all 66 pages). Of course that is not what it says. The whole premise of the memo is that looking at crime in context helps reduce both recidivism and increase those willing to come forward to report crime. She cites data (which I have no way of verifying) that since taking this approach crime has dropped in her district. So, for example she lists shoplifting for food and diapers (desperation) differently than shoplifting electronics (greed), but even in those cases if it's habitual they will prosecute.

With regard to immigration, in the same way she asks her office to consider the greater cost to someone (ie if someone can't pay a fine and is jailed, they then lose their job, making it less likely they'll pay the fine and more likely to turn to crime), she asks them to consider immigration impact as well.

She does not say illegal immigrants shouldn't be prosecuted where other people would be.

I don't wholly agree with her approach, but I encourage people to read the source document to see if it says what you are being told it says (even by me, and certainly by websites with agendas)

She doesn't ask anything. Everything you said is nice window dressing for what she actually says. That in Boston illegals can no longer be prosecuted for many crimes. Like trespassing, theft etc
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simcha2




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 4:23 pm
ectomorph wrote:
She doesn't ask anything. Everything you said is nice window dressing for what she actually says. That in Boston illegals can no longer be prosecuted for many crimes. Like trespassing, theft etc


No, that's not what it says. Read the report. Nowhere does it say "can't".

Please actually look at the original document rather than parroting.

Incidentally, she also writes that she was elected on this platform, so presumably her constituents support ideas.

I'm not going to defend her position, I'm somewhat ambivalent about it myself. But at least let's debate the facts, not a figment of them.
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1untamedgirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 5:03 pm
simcha2 wrote:
No, that's not what it says. Read the report. Nowhere does it say "can't".

Please actually look at the original document rather than parroting.

Incidentally, she also writes that she was elected on this platform, so presumably her constituents support ideas.

I'm not going to defend her position, I'm somewhat ambivalent about it myself. But at least let's debate the facts, not a figment of them.

It says
Quote:
With the assistance of immigration counsel, our office will begin to factor into all charging and sentencing decisions the potential of immigration consequences. I have also directed ADAs that motions filed after a conviction that are based on defense counsel’s failure to provide accurate advice about immigration consequences may be assented to (after full review) when it appears that doing so would be in the furtherance of justice.


What do you think it means?

It also states--

Quote:
If any ADA, victim witness advocate, or other SCDAO employee observes
Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers, Department of Homeland Security officers, or other civil immigration authorities apprehending or questioning parties scheduled to appear in court about residency status in or around the public areas of any Suffolk County courthouse, they are to immediately notify me (the District Attorney), my First Assistant, or my General Counsel.


So what will she do if ICE or DHS officials show up?

Why bother writing any of this if she is following the laws and prosecuting illegal aliens for criminal activity in the same way that American citizens are being prosecuted for the same kind of crimes?
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simcha2




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 5:09 pm
1untamedgirl wrote:
So what will she do if ICE or DHS officials show up?

Why bother writing any of this if she is following the laws and prosecuting illegal aliens for criminal activity in the same way that American citizens are being prosecuted for the same kind of crimes?


So where in that does it say "immigrants can't be prosecuted" as ectomorph claims? It says, exactly what I said a couple of posts above that immigration consequences will be taken into account.

Of course you failed to quote the entire preceding paragraph which puts it into context. Essentially that local criminal laws override federal civil ones. (But I'm guessing that's because you are quoting from a news source not the original document).

If you read the original you would see that she is holding the same standard for everyone. Please stop misrepresenting. I'm happy to debate the facts, but not outright misrepresentation.

Read the original and you'll see any she asks to be told if ice approaches immigrants. (It's on page 29).
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1untamedgirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 5:21 pm
simcha2 wrote:
So where in that does it say "immigrants can't be prosecuted" as ectomorph claims? It says, exactly what I said a couple of posts above that immigration consequences will be taken into account.

Of course you failed to quote the entire preceding paragraph which puts it into context. Essentially that local criminal laws override federal civil ones.
If you read the original you would see that she is holding the same standard for everyone.

Please stop misrepresenting. I'm happy to debate the facts, but not outright misrepresentation.

Read the original and you'll see any she asks to be told if ice approaches immigrants. (It's on page 29).


I quoted directly from the memo but you didn't answer my questions. Let's try again--

It says
Quote:
With the assistance of immigration counsel, our office will begin to factor into all charging and sentencing decisions the potential of immigration consequences. I have also directed ADAs that motions filed after a conviction that are based on defense counsel’s failure to provide accurate advice about immigration consequences may be assented to (after full review) when it appears that doing so would be in the furtherance of justice.


What do you think it means?

It also states--

Quote:
If any ADA, victim witness advocate, or other SCDAO employee observes
Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers, Department of Homeland Security officers, or other civil immigration authorities apprehending or questioning parties scheduled to appear in court about residency status in or around the public areas of any Suffolk County courthouse, they are to immediately notify me (the District Attorney), my First Assistant, or my General Counsel.


So what will she do if ICE or DHS officials show up?

Why bother writing any of this if she is following the laws and prosecuting illegal aliens for criminal activity in the same way that American citizens are being prosecuted for the same kind of crimes?

Or are you saying that "local criminal laws override federal civil laws" is code for no prosecuting illegal aliens so that they shouldn't suffer the consequences for their federal civil offenses? Does that apply to American citizens who violate federal laws as well or is it only special treatment for illegal aliens?
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simcha2




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 5:26 pm
1untamedgirl wrote:
So what will she do if ICE or DHS officials show up?

Why bother writing any of this if she is following the laws and prosecuting illegal aliens for criminal activity in the same way that American citizens are being prosecuted for the same kind of crimes?

Or are you saying that "local criminal laws override federal civil laws" is code for no prosecuting illegal aliens so that they shouldn't suffer the consequences for their federal civil offenses? Does that apply to American citizens who violate federal laws as well or is it only special treatment for illegal aliens?


As I've stated at least twice. I'm not defending her position. I'm defending the veracity of what you write based on the actual wording.

Download the report. Read the whole thing. Pay attention to the paragraph at the bottom of page 29. See her justification. Then we'll discuss it.

I'm not arguing half the facts. I'm ambivalent at best with her position. But at least I've researched it. (Yes you directly quoted, but you missed the introductory paragraph, you selectively quoted).
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 5:44 pm
simcha2 wrote:
As I've stated at least twice. I'm not defending her position. I'm defending the veracity of what you write based on the actual wording.

Download the report. Read the whole thing. Pay attention to the paragraph at the bottom of page 29. See her justification. Then we'll discuss it.

I'm not arguing half the facts. I'm ambivalent at best with her position. But at least I've researched it. (Yes you directly quoted, but you missed the introductory paragraph, you selectively quoted).

The introductory paragraph is window dressing. You are ignoring the meat of the statements and the clear purpose of this memo.
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simcha2




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 5:48 pm
ectomorph wrote:
The introductory paragraph is window dressing. You are ignoring the meat of the statements and the clear purpose of this memo.


No, the introductory paragraph expresses the belief that all people are entitled to justice (both victims and the accused) and they can't get it if they are scared to attend their court dates.

You may not agree, but it is not window dressing
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 5:50 pm
simcha2 wrote:
No, the introductory paragraph expresses the belief that all people are entitled to justice (both victims and the accused) and they can't get it if they are scared to attend their court dates.

You may not agree, but it is not window dressing

I hate to break it to you but all criminals are scared to attend their courts dates. That illegal aliens are scared to attend their courts dates because of additional things they did wrong does not mean that they should go unpunished for trespassing theft Etc
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1untamedgirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 5:59 pm
simcha2 wrote:
No, the introductory paragraph expresses the belief that all people are entitled to justice (both victims and the accused) and they can't get it if they are scared to attend their court dates.

You may not agree, but it is not window dressing

I read the introductory paragraph and the entire memo but you still didnt answer my questions so I will try again.

It says
Quote:
With the assistance of immigration counsel, our office will begin to factor into all charging and sentencing decisions the potential of immigration consequences. I have also directed ADAs that motions filed after a conviction that are based on defense counsel’s failure to provide accurate advice about immigration consequences may be assented to (after full review) when it appears that doing so would be in the furtherance of justice.


What do you think it means?

It also states--

Quote:
If any ADA, victim witness advocate, or other SCDAO employee observes
Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers, Department of Homeland Security officers, or other civil immigration authorities apprehending or questioning parties scheduled to appear in court about residency status in or around the public areas of any Suffolk County courthouse, they are to immediately notify me (the District Attorney), my First Assistant, or my General Counsel.


So what will she do if ICE or DHS officials show up?


How is any of this justice for victims of crimes committed by illegal aliens?

Why bother writing any of this if she is following the laws and prosecuting illegal aliens for criminal activity in the same way that American citizens are being prosecuted for the same kind of crimes?
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simcha2




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 6:00 pm
ectomorph wrote:
I hate to break it to you but all criminals are scared to attend their courts dates. That illegal aliens are scared to attend their courts dates because of additional things they did wrong does not mean that they should go unpunished for trespassing theft Etc


What about the victims of crime?

(Btw, trespassing etc are in general not being prosecuted, not limited to illegal immigrants)
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1untamedgirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 6:04 pm
simcha2 wrote:
What about the victims of crime?

What about victims of crimes committed by illegal aliens? How is it justice for them if illegal aliens are not being charged or have their charges dropped or reduced just to avoid deportation?
Why should any American citizen have to suffer the consequences for their action if they commit a federal offense (or state for that matter) if illegal aliens can get away with it?
Why are illegal aliens above the law?
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Cheiny




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 6:18 pm
ectomorph wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2019/biz/news/rahm-emanuel-jussie-smollett-whitewash-1203172921/amp/

Graham said he would ask the Department of Justice to investigate the state’s attorney’s handling of the case. State’s Attorney Kim Foxx had earlier recused herself from the case after having a conversation with one of Smollett’s family members early in the investigation.

“I don’t think justice was done here today,” Graham said, noting that Smollett could still face federal charges if he is found to have sent himself a threatening letter. “We are certainly doubling down on our quest to find justice here.”

Emanuel compared the situation to the elite college admissions scandal, saying the outcome reflects the existence of a two-tier system of justice.

“This sends a clear message if you’re in a position of influence and power you’ll get treated one way and other people will get treated another way,” Emanuel said. “This is wrong.”


Basically, if you check off enough social justice boxes, you can get away with just about anything. Rahm Emanuel claimed it's money and influence, but we all know Why a progressive would forgive smollett- because he tried to further their cause.

Jews always lose in unfair courts. We would do well to pay attention to this.

Even liberals on this website believed the story, patently ridiculous as it was.


Very interesting that the obamas and Jesse Jackson were involved in his sudden release.
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Cheiny




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 6:19 pm
simcha2 wrote:
I've no idea about the Smollett case. I (like all the other amothers here) haven't seen any actual documents of the case. Could the dismissal be politically motivated, sure, but that could also be a figment of the qanon imagination.

But the rest of your comments that "Basically, if you check off enough social justice boxes, you can get away with just about anything" are demonstrably false.

https://www.vox.com/identities.....ooker


The fact that you don’t know about the Smollett case is the reason why your assumptions are completely off base.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 6:29 pm
1untamedgirl wrote:
What about victims of crimes committed by illegal aliens? How is it justice for them if illegal aliens are not being charged or have their charges dropped or reduced just to avoid deportation?
Why should any American citizen have to suffer the consequences for their action if they commit a federal offense (or state for that matter) if illegal aliens can get away with it?
Why are illegal aliens above the law?


It's worse than that. They learn how to work the system. Broken window policing is a mainstay of police departments since it was shown to work in the 90s in NYC. If you can't enforce the laws against one group of people, they will only push the boundaries further. Then more serious crimes increase. Tell all the angel mothers whose families were murdered by illegal immigrants your reasons why laws shouldn't be enforced.

The illegal immigrants I know live illegal lives. They habitually break municipal ordinances on housing causing legitimate tax payers to carry them. They don't pay their income taxes. They illegally access services when they are working off the books. It nauseates me reading thread after thead of poor American frum women who can't afford dental work while we give it away to thieves. We need to take care of our own before we drain the system for uninvited folks.
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simcha2




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2019, 6:38 pm
1untamedgirl wrote:
What about victims of crimes committed by illegal aliens? How is it justice for them if illegal aliens are not being charged or have their charges dropped or reduced just to avoid deportation?
Why should any American citizen have to suffer the consequences for their action if they commit a federal offense (or state for that matter) if illegal aliens can get away with it?
Why are illegal aliens above the law?


This doesn't apply to federal cases. It's county law. It's not even state cases.

But ignoring the factual errors, the victims crimes but illegal immigrants are being treated the same as victims of crime of citizens. Low level misdemeanors aren't being prosecuted when justice can be served in other ways.
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