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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 8:59 pm
Does anyone have experience or know the answer to this?

We reported (yes, I wrote the other recent post) childcare expenses with the provider's SSN, but she thought we hadn't filed yet, and asked us not to report those expenses (since she's currently under "review" from the IRS).

She really messed us over. We weren't trying anything like nekama, chas veshalom, but were getting into a time crunch, and she wasn't returning calls, so we did what we felt was correct.

Do you know if in the event that the IRS used the information we provided "against her" whether they would give specific identifying information as to who reported it (amount and/or name)? I have no idea how that kind of thing works.

[The nafka mina is how/if to let her know. If there's no way it would get back to her, I would just try to keep the shalom and use a diplomatic way of getting out of admitting that we reported the expenses. If there's a way she'd find out, I'll just be totally up front.]
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amother




Lilac
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:07 pm
I don’t have an answer to your question as I’m not a CPA.

I just want to suggest that if your conscience is bothering you, maybe amend the return to remove the claim for the childcare deduction.
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tzimip




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:09 pm
Also, for the future, the 1040 has an option to check off that the child care provider refused to furnish their details. You still get the credit and you don't have to provide details. I've been doing it this way for many years.
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:11 pm
tzimip wrote:
Also, for the future, the 1040 has an option to check off that the child care provider refused to furnish their details. You still get the credit and you don't have to provide details. I've been doing it this way for many years.


Yes, but you do need to provide address, correct? She and I talked about using that option last year, but decided against it, since we felt that it would be more likely to raise a red flag, versus just giving the SSN.
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chicco




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:12 pm
I would imagine that she would get a letter that says why did you not report the $xxx paid to you by Mr and Mrs so and so.

The IRS tracks money paid out and money received and they cross reference everything. When you do your taxes, they check that your reported W2 matches the copies your employer sent them. The same is true with anything reported. If they want to catch her "not reporting" income, they will have to specify where it came from.
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amother




Lilac
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:13 pm
tzimip wrote:
Also, for the future, the 1040 has an option to check off that the child care provider refused to furnish their details. You still get the credit and you don't have to provide details. I've been doing it this way for many years.


You still need to provide the provider’s name and address.
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:16 pm
amother wrote:
I don’t have an answer to your question as I’m not a CPA.

I just want to suggest that if your conscience is bothering you, maybe amend the return to remove the claim for the childcare deduction.


Thanks. In all honesty, while I don't want to get a frum Jew in (more) trouble, my conscience doesn't really bother me. She and I had a very open and clear agreement that I would be reporting it, then I used dependent-care FSA funds (with her signature) for some of the expenses, and her information was saved from last year. I realize she's not in a good state, and I'm really not out to "get" her, but I also would be concerned that it could hurt me that I reimbursed myself from the FSA, and then don't even report it on my taxes...
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:17 pm
chicco wrote:
I would imagine that she would get a letter that says why did you not report the $xxx paid to you by Mr and Mrs so and so.

The IRS tracks money paid out and money received and they cross reference everything. When you do your taxes, they check that your reported W2 matches the copies your employer sent them. The same is true with anything reported. If they want to catch her "not reporting" income, they will have to specify where it came from.


This is precisely what I'm worried about. Have you or anyone else on this thread heard of/seen a letter like this?

We've tried calling some CPAs. Only got through to one (yes, we realize they're super busy), but he didn't know.
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amother




Lilac
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:22 pm
Don't take this as professional advice but I see no reporting conflict with your FSA and tax return.
You don’t report your FSA on your return, and you don’t need to claim the childcare expense deduction.
How much of a tax savings are you getting with this deduction?
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amother




Olive
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:25 pm
Are you comfortable with your kids there? You will not know when she finds out. This isn't legal advice.
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ra_mom




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:29 pm
amother wrote:
Are you comfortable with your kids there? You will not know when she finds out. This isn't legal advice.

I agree. It's time to wrap the year up and move on to a new child care provider.
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amother




Wheat
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:32 pm
I dont understand how you could go ahead and do that when she is going through an audit without discussing it first. Its not your business if she is "dishonest" she asked you to wait, why did you just do it anyways?
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:34 pm
ra_mom wrote:
I agree. It's time to wrap the year up and move on to a new child care provider.


I'm comfortable in terms of the care she provides, yes, but we already committed to another year (at least we haven't paid in full in advance, yet, just a deposit).


Last edited by amother on Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Peach
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:35 pm
amother wrote:
Are you comfortable with your kids there? You will not know when she finds out. This isn't legal advice.


It didn't sound like legal advice Confused
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amother




Fuchsia
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:36 pm
chicco wrote:
I would imagine that she would get a letter that says why did you not report the $xxx paid to you by Mr and Mrs so and so.

The IRS tracks money paid out and money received and they cross reference everything. When you do your taxes, they check that your reported W2 matches the copies your employer sent them. The same is true with anything reported. If they want to catch her "not reporting" income, they will have to specify where it came from.


Do you work at the IRS?.

An employer filing a W2 is not the same as individual taxpayer including the SSN of the childcare provider on her 1040. Totally different processing.

And - tax returns are confidential. Its unlikely IRS will contact Mrs. Y and tell her that Mrs. X claimed her a deduction.
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:37 pm
amother wrote:
I dont understand how you could go ahead and do that when she is going through an audit without discussing it first. Its not your business if she is "dishonest" she asked you to wait, why did you just do it anyways?


She and I had a bunch of discussions, and she understood that I wasn't comfortable not reporting anything. She said she'd get back to me by a certain date, didn't, then ignored my texts and phone calls. (I don't drop off/pick up, so I don't see her in person.) It came to the point that I needed to file (Pesach is coming...), so I gave up on getting through to her with a final maskana.

I realize that sounds callous, and you're right - it's not my business if she's dishonest, but it becomes my business when she asks me to change what I report. YES, I realize I am under no OBLIGATION to take the credit, but any "normal" ehrlich person would be reporting the expenses paid, especially if they used the FSA funds.
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:41 pm
amother wrote:
Do you work at the IRS?.

An employer filing a W2 is not the same as individual taxpayer including the SSN of the childcare provider on her 1040. Totally different processing.

And - tax returns are confidential. Its unlikely IRS will contact Mrs. Y and tell her that Mrs. X claimed her a deduction.


This is what I'm hoping... Just looking for confirmation (either way) so I know what to say to her. She literally left me 4 voicemails today saying pretty much the same thing over and over, within the time frame of maybe 10 minutes. I don't have a classic desk job, so I couldn't take her calls (wasn't even near my phone at the time), but she said that she can't call at night, and she said not to text her any info (I guess she's afraid it could be read by the IRS????). I feel like if it's so important to her, she would make a point of calling me at a time that she knows I'm available. (We've previously spoken about other things at night.)
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amother




Lilac
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:44 pm
Did you employ an accountant to prepare your tax return or did you do it on your own?

You really need to consult with a CPA as I believe you can use a childcare FSA or a childcare tax deduction, not both.

Since you got your tax savings from the FSA, you cannot claim a childcare expense deduction.

Again, not professional advice.
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:49 pm
amother wrote:
Did you employ an accountant to prepare your tax return or did you do it on your own?

You really need to consult with a CPA as I believe you can use a childcare FSA or a childcare tax deduction, not both.

Since you got your tax savings from the FSA, you cannot claim a childcare expense deduction.

Again, not professional advice.


Our expenses far exceed our FSA funds. The credit would only be applied to the difference between the FSA and the limit for the childcare credit (which I believe is 6000). While we don't get a credit for everything submitted, we do report what we spent.
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amother




Olive
 

Post  Thu, Mar 28 2019, 9:50 pm
amother wrote:
It didn't sound like legal advice Confused


Your post is foolish. Obviously, I write that as a CYA.
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