Should I force my 12 year old to come to therapy?

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)

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amother

Jetblack

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 12:09 am

amother wrote:

Update: I had a long talk with dd on Friday and told her to think about it over Shabbos. By today, she agreed to come along because we told her she was free to walk out and go to a relative down the block any time she felt uncomfortable. It turns out that she wanted to go to the relative.

Anyway, we went today and ds hurt her twice on the way there. Then the therapist asked them about their feelings and dd burst into tears and she cried for the whole hour. She asked to leave and go to the relative, but the relative wasn't home so she was stuck with us. She was obviously so hurt and so unable to express herself verbally. I feel terrible.

Now the therapist wants to see her separately on a regular basis besides for seeing ds. The therapist and I discussed how dd keeps her feelings bottled up inside and is never open to talking about them, and it has become a concern. But she refuses to ever go back. She says it was horrible because she hated being asked about her feelings.

So now am I supposed to let her keep her pain inside and not take care of it? Am I supposed to force her to go back? I can't imagine a different therapist would be better for her, because any good therapist will ask about her feelings. I think she will refuse to step foot in any therapists office from now on, but now I think it's urgent for her to see someone just to help her heal. What should I do now?

It's hard to talk about your feelings if you never did it before. She needs to get used to the idea. Let her process this idea for a month and try again. Don't talk about it for a few weeks and then try again to ask her to come. You can also try to practice talking about her feelings at home to get her used to it. But don't push her more than she wants to. It can backfire. You can also acknowledge the fact that it's hard to talk about your feelings and for you it's also hard but it's a healthy thing to do. And also that nobody will judge her...talk open and honest.

The therapist should also know not to ask her about her feelings on the first visit. She needs to build up a trusting relationship first. Maybe you should make up with the therapist and DD that she will not ask her about her feelings, at least not in the beginning.

amother

White

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 12:13 am

Why can't you see the therapist yourself and learn how to open up a dialogue with your dd? Is there any reason to push her to talk to a therapist when she obviously is so against the idea? It also concerns me that the therapist is being so pushy about it. If she has experience working with this age group she would recognize how difficult it is to get a resistant girl on board given the circumstances. Making this a point of contention is not what your dd needs in her life right now.

Petra

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 12:13 am

Since she will not go to therapy, you have to learn how to help her. She needs an outlet and she needs to figure out how to cope and process in a healthy way. Does her school have a social worker, guidance counselor or such who can at least offer a sympathetic ear so she can destress a little? Keep going to therapy with your DS and go to therapy for yourself and go to family therapy so that you can interact with family in healthy ways as possible. Also, spend one on one time with her. I find my kids are more likely to open up with me and more willing to have real discussions about questions and stresses right after I spend one on one time with them. They confide more then. It will take a long time for her to learn to process things. It will be an ever evolving process. Hopefully she will come to the point sooner than later when she has matured and realized therapy will be helpful and is willing to face those emotions.

aricelli

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 12:31 am

Find a therapist who can work with her without pushing her to talk about her feelings. My ds6 saw a play therapists who worked on his emotions through play- the one time she tried to talk about emotions he pretended to sleep complete with loud snores! 12 is young- some therapists even have objects etc for adults who find it hard to talk

amother

Burgundy

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 7:34 am

I think it's much more beneficial for your daughter to have her own separate therapy, when and if she is ready.

The therapist seemed to get too pushy by insisting on the meeting with all of you present, and jumping right in by probing her about her feelings. I would question her judgement on dealing with your daughter and her emotional makeup.

Also, you mentioned that your son hurt her twice on the way to the session. What did that look like? And how did you respond to it? Does DD feel like you can keep her safe?

aricelli

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 7:37 am

Also- is this the therapist your son is using? Can you find a more playful one for him?

ora_43

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 7:49 am

That sounds like a horrible experience for your dd.

I'm sorry, OP, but I really don't understand how it happened that you talked her into it by promising she could leave if she needed to, but then when the time came, she couldn't leave and was forced to spend an hour (!!) crying in front of her mother, a complete stranger, and (I assume) the brother who had just been hurting her.

You told her she would be free to leave! That's the whole reason she agreed to come!

OF COURSE you are going to have trouble talking her into it again. Come on, that's like saying "no, go ahead and fall, I'll catch you" ten times, then letting the kid fall on the floor, and then being surprised they won't try it again.

If you want to fix this, step one is to apologize profusely. And then spend a month or so putting zero pressure on her to go to therapy, and instead focus on rebuilding your relationship with her (do put the offer of therapy with a therapist of her own out there, but only mention it once, with zero pressure).

Do fun things with her one-on-one. Rebuild trust. If she reveals any of her feelings to you, no matter how small, no matter how hostile, respond with love and respect and basically just show her over and over that her feelings are safe with you. For the next two months only criticize her if you absolutely have to.

If all that goes well, then in two months you could raise the idea again of therapy for her, where 1. the focus is on her and not on helping the brother who constantly hurts her, 2. she gets to pick the setting and the therapist she's comfortable with, instead of getting her brother's therapist by default. She needs to feel safe and to feel heard, and to get some distance from her brother, in order to get to the point of wanting to heal the relationship.

ora_43

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 8:05 am

Just so it's clear I'm not saying you're terrible and should beat yourself up. It sounds like you're a good mom. You see your kids' issues and do your best to help them. One mistake doesn't change that.

It's just important to see what a serious problem this is in terms of her trust, in order to fix it.

amother

Babyblue

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 8:07 am

Ora said it best

I am truly appalled that you sent her into this situation.
You told her she could go to relative and yet it seems you did not convey that plan to relative and she wasn't home!

I can only imagine that you are under tremendous pressure to improve your sons behavior for yourself and the family. However, your daughter should not be the korban.

Sorry to be so blunt. But I am so disturbed and upset about this whole saga as you relate it.

You seem to have been fixed on the idea that therapist could improve/fix the relationship between son and daughter but really you want daughter to stop treating son "like dirt" as you feel this fuels his anger. And you seem to feel therapist could get her to change her behavior. And he hurt her twice on the way there -- what does that even mean?

No wonder your daughter had no words for all of this and just cried.

And its all under the guise or belief that daughter needs to talk about her feelings. It just doesn't work like that. First a safe environment and trust needs to be built. this was nothing but about getting her to go under false pretenses like she could leave and the like. To be fair you probably thought only about getting her there and hoped then some magic would be worked. Sad to say even with good intentions instead this was a huge step backward and probably sent her possible and understandable resentment/distrust and the like sky rocketing.

I would really look into getting a family therapist involved who could help your whole family be healthier and have each member feel safe and taken care of. glad to hear this therapist has helped your son. however, your daughter needs her own "advocate". and every good therapist is not good at every area. whether or not this is one of them, please listen to your daughter and validate her feelings as best as you can without jumping to fix. again this therapist may be good for son but sounds like you need one to help address everyone and the overall family system. a big job for any mother.

hatzlocha

studying_torah

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 8:14 am

Perhaps your ds needs meds to help him control his impulses to hurt your dd.

Also what is prompting his hurting her?
Does he hurt her because she was nasty to him and he can't answer her back?
Or does he hurt her because he is frustrated from other things?

Either way, your 12 year old is suffering from her younger sibling and needs more support. It makes sense that after dealing with him hurting her so long she is verbally lashing out.
Is it right? No. Understandable? Very much so.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 9:15 am

My heart breaks for DD.

You may have a SN son, but your DD has special needs, too. She has been abused, traumatized, and not protected. She doesn't even have the language to express how she feels.

Instead of asking her how she feels about something, try asking her "What do you THINK about this?" It's a safer question, and can open up dialog.

You must work harder on controlling DS. If that means medication, then please do it.

Does your daughter have any outside interests that get her out of the house? She might do really well with gymnastics, dance, singing, or anything else that lets her express herself in a safe way. She needs to feel accomplished and recognized on her own merits.

It is hard to live in the shadow of a SN sibling. You always feel like they are getting all the attention, and that everyone makes excuses for their bad behavior. The double standard rankles something awful, and creates nothing but resentment.

oneofakind

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 9:22 am

I agree with all of the above. Her trust was totally broken, her brother is still hurting her and you are desperate to have everybody get along.

Meds for brother are a possibility. Daughter should get a therapist who does sand tray or art and separate her from her brother as much as possible.

amother

Burgundy

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 9:32 am

Your daughter is traumatized.
Is the therapist working with you on developing a behavioral plan to deal with your son's aggression? What happens when he hurts a family member? Is there a clear plan of steps to take, or is your daughter just supposed to "take it"?
She is living in an environment of trauma, where she can get hurt at any moment and her safety isn't ensured. Number one is a clear behavioral plan to ensure safety for family members. Then we can delve deeper into emotions.

amother

Jade

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 9:56 am

Wow. People are very angry on behalf of my dd.

When we told dd that she could go to the relative, we specified that that is if she is home. Dd also brought a long a book to read in the waiting room in case the relative was not home, and she was fine with that.

After she started crying, I took her into a separate room and she cried in my arms while the therapist stayed in the other room with dh and ds. She was fine with that. They tried to get her to come back in the other room and she refused- so then the therapist brought ds into the room where we were. She did not ask dd anything else, but she wanted ds to admit in front of dd that he hurts her and it's not always her being mean to him. There were no more questions asked of dd, but she continued to cry into my shoulder the whole time.

When I said ds hurt her on the way there, we were in the car and she was watching a video on a smartphone and ds was watching over her shoulder. She moved to block him from seeing, so he pulled her hair. Dh yelled at him, and then he did it again a few minutes later. I told him that he can't complain about her if he is hurting her, and that we would tell the therapist about what happened.

Dd does instigate, perhaps without meaning to. She speaks to him condescendingly, always. And although this is nobody's fault, she eats foods that ds hates the smell of, and she doesn't always put it away after she eats, so he gets upset about having smelly stuff laying around. He is extremely sensitive to smell. Again, nobody's fault, but one area that his special needs are causing problems. When the therapist gave him toys and props to use to express how dd bothers him, he chose just a bottle of ketchup. That was his main problem that he expressed. I try teaching her to put things away when she's finished eating, but she's not a responsible kid and she needs to be told every time.

I would say that now he hurts her maybe once every two weeks on average. And usually it's just a little hit or something.

All healthy siblings fight to an extent. My siblings and I fought all the time, and we grew up okay. The problem is stemming from the abuse that occurred years ago. At this point, there isn't major abuse going on anymore, just occasional hurting, perhaps slightly more often than normal siblings.

What we do still have, though, is a lot of anger. Ds has learned (usually) not to hurt people, but he still gets angry and mutters under his breath or yells or balls his hands into fists. He seems to have no idea he is doing these things, and he denies it every time. It's hard for therapists to help him with that because they are not in our house when it happens. He doesn't do those things when he's with other people who aren't in the family, because he's not comfortable expressing himself in front of others.

aricelli

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:04 am

Is yourson doing OT? Floortime? ABA? Theres so much out there for him.

amother

Jade

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:13 am

He gets OT and PT and a lot of speech therapy. He has had ABA and it was horrible for him. He did great with floor time, but he isn't getting it anymore. He is in a regular ed school and thriving there, though he has support to help him socialize and play sports.

aricelli

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:17 am

amother wrote:

Wow- youre doing so much for him! Did he “graduate” floortime- can you still do it- it did wonders for us. Also: can you get a different OT? There are some that are mediocre and some that can be life altering

aricelli

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:24 am

Just want to add: hugs to you for what youre going through. When my son was doing poorly my whole family suffered- especially the sib closest in age to him- she still has it hard at times and I try to make it up to her with lots of extra attention and alone time with me- good luck!

studying_torah

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:24 am

There's a lot of anger because it seems like you're defending your ds' behavior & dismissing the old abuse.
You might not mean to, but that's what it sounds like.

I think your older child needs help processing the abuse; and also agree that she likely still doesn't feel safe with your son (even though he's much better now). And yes by now she's frustrated and hurt enough that she will he nasty to him. Not nice maybe, but understandable.

I also think you & your dh need a better way to discipline your son and also teach him self regulation to calm his reactions. But also to realize what is a big deal and what isn't.
It isn't reasonable to flip out over smells , no matter how sensitive he might be. That's not the way the world works.

I think you need to leave your daughter alone as far as therapy, unless she wants to work out her feelings. It should not be about how to be nice to her brother- at this stage.
She needs to be heard and understood.

Iymnok

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:24 am

If your daughter was "abused" by him, she needs help recovering to be as successful as possible in life. She needs her own therapist in whatever modality is best for her. That’s a lot of pain to cry like that foe a 12yo.

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