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amother
Amethyst
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 Sun, Mar 31 2019, 10:09 am
| NovelConcept wrote: | I'm just curious what you recommend doing to rid our bodies of all toxins, seeing as we are exposed to 30-50 thousand other chemicals in life. Basically everything, everywhere is contaminated with some sort of "toxin." That includes drinking water and soil.
This world is polluted. Fact.
Pretty hard to completely escape life and detox from everything.
Don't get me wrong; I'm all for trying our best, but you have to live in reality.
Choose stainless steel pots over Teflon-coated.
Choose fruits and veggies over fried snacks on a daily basis.
And so on and so forth.
But you can't stop breathing. You can't stop drinking or eating.
And sometimes, you just have to take the best of the options presented, such as with vaccines (for the average person).
IMO, detoxing is a bunch of baloney. And in fact, more stressful to the body than gradual health-betterment changes. |
Black and white thinking at it's best. We're so polluted and full of chemicals, why not inject some more?
Instead, we all try our best to minimize toxins to the best of our ability and those that are compatible with our lifestyle, budget, place of residence, etc.
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amother
Floralwhite
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 10:39 am
| NovelConcept wrote: | I'm just curious what you recommend doing to rid our bodies of all toxins, seeing as we are exposed to 30-50 thousand other chemicals in life. Basically everything, everywhere is contaminated with some sort of "toxin." That includes drinking water and soil.
This world is polluted. Fact.
Pretty hard to completely escape life and detox from everything.
Don't get me wrong; I'm all for trying our best, but you have to live in reality.
Choose stainless steel pots over Teflon-coated.
Choose fruits and veggies over fried snacks on a daily basis.
And so on and so forth.
But you can't stop breathing. You can't stop drinking or eating.
And sometimes, you just have to take the best of the options presented, such as with vaccines (for the average person).
IMO, detoxing is a bunch of baloney. And in fact, more stressful to the body than gradual health-betterment changes. |
Detoxing and chelating is an entirely different story. Vitamin C is not that. I don't recall using the phrase "all toxins," as it would be very inaccurate.
Like I said, most who get the MMR will have no side effects. For those who are worried, vitamin C is an easy, accessible, and safe way to help minimize complications.
If you are convinced that science is right THIS time (unlike with x-rays, trans fats, DPT, etc.) and vaccines are completely innocuous, I am not going to argue with you. There are plenty of other threads about that.
This thread was intended for people who SHOULD vaccinate but are understandably apprehensive. This information is simply a way to give the body a boost up and help prevent negative vaccine reactions.
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chavipanda
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 10:53 am
"Toxin" is a meaningless phrase. It's nice that if this post is really meant *just* to reassure people about getting vaccinated such that they might be more likely to get [their kids] vaccinated. But it's really not correct to claim that vaccines have toxins. Toxicity is just a question of concentration. Water and food often have trace amounts of nasties (bacteria, cleaning chemicals) - but it doesn't matter because the amounts are infinitesimal. Even, for example, sodium ascorbate is a TOXIN if you ingest too much of it.
Re vitamin C/sodium ascorbate in particular: taking more of it than the doctor-recommended amount is not going to do anything for you. If extra sodium ascorbate were going to do something for you, it would BE doctor-recommended. In small quantities, extra sodium ascorbate is mostly harmless -because it's water-soluble the body disposes of the excess, it won't do a whole lot one way or another. But if you take a lot at once, before the body can excrete the excess, you could be looking at (as one poster noted) serious complications (https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-c/faq-20058030). This a longwinded way of saying that extra vitamin C, at best, does nothing.
Also, let's take a step back from the whole vaccine hysteria/concern. Everyone from the CDC to almost every Haredi rav say that vaccinations are safe. Every medicine has POTENTIAL side effects, but they're worthwhile - and if they're were something that you could actually do to lower the already low risk of side effects - it would already be recommended.
Why not just listen to the experts, your pediatricians and rebbeim?
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NovelConcept
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 11:01 am
I'm actually not a black and white thinker at all.
I wasn't saying to run for more chemicals, I was just pointing out the laughability of "detoxing" in a world full of toxins.
Everything needs to be weighed with a risk vs. benefit analysis, and for most peopled (not all) vaccines are the greater good than the greater evil. When medically indicated, vaccines should be avoided because they, like anything, have the potential to harm when used incorrectly.
I'm sure it to doesn't hurt to take vitamin C, but I believe the correct phrasing of what it may accomplish is: "Vitamin C may mitigate harmful side effects of the MMR."
Not:
"By preparing the body by dosing until tolerance level prior to and following the vaccine, the body's ability to rid itself of the toxins effectively is magnified."
The body gets rid of waste products naturally. There are full systems in place to do that, through the skin and excretory systems. We don't have to push ourselves to "rid" ourselves of "toxins" by push to the brink of tolerance in alternative treatments.
And, FYI, all drugs have a half-life. There is a time when they naturally exit the body; I am sure the MMR is the same.
Last edited by NovelConcept on Sun, Mar 31 2019, 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Aquamarine
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 11:03 am
| chavipanda wrote: | "Toxin" is a meaningless phrase. It's nice that if this post is really meant *just* to reassure people about getting vaccinated such that they might be more likely to get [their kids] vaccinated. But it's really not correct to claim that vaccines have toxins. Toxicity is just a question of concentration. Water and food often have trace amounts of nasties (bacteria, cleaning chemicals) - but it doesn't matter because the amounts are infinitesimal. Even, for example, sodium ascorbate is a TOXIN if you ingest too much of it.
Re vitamin C/sodium ascorbate in particular: taking more of it than the doctor-recommended amount is not going to do anything for you. If extra sodium ascorbate were going to do something for you, it would BE doctor-recommended. In small quantities, extra sodium ascorbate is mostly harmless -because it's water-soluble the body disposes of the excess, it won't do a whole lot one way or another. But if you take a lot at once, before the body can excrete the excess, you could be looking at (as one poster noted) serious complications (https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-c/faq-20058030). This a longwinded way of saying that extra vitamin C, at best, does nothing.
Also, let's take a step back from the whole vaccine hysteria/concern. Everyone from the CDC to almost every Haredi rav say that vaccinations are safe. Every medicine has POTENTIAL side effects, but they're worthwhile - and if they're were something that you could actually do to lower the already low risk of side effects - it would already be recommended.
Why not just listen to the experts, your pediatricians and rebbeim? |
I find it quite interesting that you are comparing too much sodium ascorbate to formaldehyde, polysorbate 80, thimeresol and aborted fetal tissue among other things. Hmm...
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NovelConcept
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 11:05 am
Throwing in aborted fetal tissue is a pathetic anti-vaxxer comment that means little.
While it sounds disgusting and sad, I doubt it is toxic.
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amother
Floralwhite
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 11:12 am
| chavipanda wrote: | "Toxin" is a meaningless phrase. It's nice that if this post is really meant *just* to reassure people about getting vaccinated such that they might be more likely to get [their kids] vaccinated. But it's really not correct to claim that vaccines have toxins. Toxicity is just a question of concentration. Water and food often have trace amounts of nasties (bacteria, cleaning chemicals) - but it doesn't matter because the amounts are infinitesimal. Even, for example, sodium ascorbate is a TOXIN if you ingest too much of it.
Re vitamin C/sodium ascorbate in particular: taking more of it than the doctor-recommended amount is not going to do anything for you. If extra sodium ascorbate were going to do something for you, it would BE doctor-recommended. In small quantities, extra sodium ascorbate is mostly harmless -because it's water-soluble the body disposes of the excess, it won't do a whole lot one way or another. But if you take a lot at once, before the body can excrete the excess, you could be looking at (as one poster noted) serious complications (https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-c/faq-20058030). This a longwinded way of saying that extra vitamin C, at best, does nothing.
Also, let's take a step back from the whole vaccine hysteria/concern. Everyone from the CDC to almost every Haredi rav say that vaccinations are safe. Every medicine has POTENTIAL side effects, but they're worthwhile - and if they're were something that you could actually do to lower the already low risk of side effects - it would already be recommended.
Why not just listen to the experts, your pediatricians and rebbeim? |
There are plenty of studies backing me up. https://www.bmj.com/rapid-resp.....tions
Doctors don't recommend everything they should. When was the last time your doctor asked you how many fruits you eat on an average day, or how many cans of soda? Is it because it doesn't matter?
And why on earth are you telling me to listen to Rebbeim for medical advice? Unless you are a chassid and have a Rebbe, that is dangerous and foolish. Here on imamother, everyone will jump on you if you rely on a Rav to tell you which birth control to choose, for heavens sake.
It's the same theory you're trying to advance: That vaccines are 99.9% safe for everybody and there is nothing you can do to make them safer. This is untrue.
I am recommending that people vaccinate. Why does it bother you so much if they take a vitamin to make it safer?
Note: There are ZERO reported deaths from vitamin C. And people have had even 100 GRAMS per day via IV.
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amother
Aquamarine
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 11:13 am
| NovelConcept wrote: | Throwing in aborted fetal tissue is a pathetic anti-vaxxer comment that means little.
While it sounds disgusting and sad, I doubt it is toxic. |
Way to nitpick. It doesn't mean so little when you know the effects it can have and has had on a person's body.
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ohmygosh
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 12:47 pm
| amother wrote: | | I find it quite interesting that you are comparing too much sodium ascorbate to formaldehyde, polysorbate 80, thimeresol and aborted fetal tissue among other things. Hmm... |
And I'm wondering why you included thimerisol in your list here, when it's well known that thimerisol was removed from U.S. vaccines in 2001, other than the multi dose flu vaccine. In fact, it was never in the MMR vaccine at any point.
Makes me question the rest of what you wrote.
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amother
Amethyst
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 12:53 pm
| NovelConcept wrote: | I'm actually not a black and white thinker at all.
I wasn't saying to run for more chemicals, I was just pointing out the laughability of "detoxing" in a world full of toxins.
Everything needs to be weighed with a risk vs. benefit analysis, and for most peopled (not all) vaccines are the greater good than the greater evil. When medically indicated, vaccines should be avoided because they, like anything, have the potential to harm when used incorrectly.
I'm sure it to doesn't hurt to take vitamin C, but I believe the correct phrasing of what it may accomplish is: "Vitamin C may mitigate harmful side effects of the MMR."
Not:
"By preparing the body by dosing until tolerance level prior to and following the vaccine, the body's ability to rid itself of the toxins effectively is magnified."
The body gets rid of waste products naturally. There are full systems in place to do that, through the skin and excretory systems. We don't have to push ourselves to "rid" ourselves of "toxins" by push to the brink of tolerance in alternative treatments.
And, FYI, all drugs have a half-life. There is a time when they naturally exit the body; I am sure the MMR is the same. |
That's not science.
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ectomorph
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 1:02 pm
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This is a well done piece of anti vaccine propaganda.
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amother
Fuchsia
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 1:09 pm
Im not a doctor, and not a kook or crunchy. I'd be labelled a kook if I had little ones today. In 2019, if I ask my Rockland County NY MD to work with me to schedule vaccinations in a non conventional way, he'd kick me out of his practice. When I did it in 2000, before it was headline news, he was happy to work with me. All my kids were fully innoculated before 1st day of school, and had shots out of order based on their exposure to the elderly and family visits out of US.
Minimize risk by asking for the MMR to be split up. My pediatrician did this for my now 19 year old, and all my kids since. My youngest is 6. I believe mercury suspension is no longer used in the bound vaccine, so my issue is not as much of an issue today.
Boost immunity by feeding your kids healthy food, getting exercise and access to sunlight. That means cut the packaged and processed food. Avoid the entire middle section of the kosher grocery store and the takeout section. Even without eating organic, that would do wonders for immunity.
Give your child probiotic foods and supplements if neccessary.
It takes more effort to do the above than it does to research risks of vaccines and it improves the immune system across the board.
Also, daven that your kids, born and yet to be born, should be hale and healthy.
The rest isn't up to us.
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amother
Amethyst
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 1:12 pm
| amother wrote: | Im not a doctor, and not a kook or crunchy. I'd be labelled a kook if I had little ones today. In 2019, if I ask my Rockland County NY MD to work with me to schedule vaccinations in a non conventional way, he'd kick me out of his practice. When I did it in 2000, before it was headline news, he was happy to work with me. All my kids were fully innoculated before 1st day of school, and had shots out of order based on their exposure to the elderly and family visits out of US.
Minimize risk by asking for the MMR to be split up. My pediatrician did this for my now 19 year old, and all my kids since. My youngest is 6. I believe mercury suspension is no longer used in the bound vaccine, so my issue is not as much of an issue today.
Boost immunity by feeding your kids healthy food, getting exercise and access to sunlight. That means cut the packaged and processed food. Avoid the entire middle section of the kosher grocery store and the takeout section. Even without eating organic, that would do wonders for immunity.
Give your child probiotic foods and supplements if neccessary.
It takes more effort to do the above than it does to research risks of vaccines and it improves the immune system across the board.
Also, daven that your kids, born and yet to be born, should be hale and healthy.
The rest isn't up to us. |
It is not possible to obtain the separated MMR in the USA. If it would be, many people would be giving only the measles vaccine now. Can you tell us how your doctor did it?
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mig100
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 1:30 pm
| ectomorph wrote: | | This is a well done piece of anti vaccine propaganda. |
Yup
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mig100
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 1:32 pm
| chavipanda wrote: | "Toxin" is a meaningless phrase. It's nice that if this post is really meant *just* to reassure people about getting vaccinated such that they might be more likely to get [their kids] vaccinated. But it's really not correct to claim that vaccines have toxins. Toxicity is just a question of concentration. Water and food often have trace amounts of nasties (bacteria, cleaning chemicals) - but it doesn't matter because the amounts are infinitesimal. Even, for example, sodium ascorbate is a TOXIN if you ingest too much of it.
Re vitamin C/sodium ascorbate in particular: taking more of it than the doctor-recommended amount is not going to do anything for you. If extra sodium ascorbate were going to do something for you, it would BE doctor-recommended. In small quantities, extra sodium ascorbate is mostly harmless -because it's water-soluble the body disposes of the excess, it won't do a whole lot one way or another. But if you take a lot at once, before the body can excrete the excess, you could be looking at (as one poster noted) serious complications (https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-c/faq-20058030). This a longwinded way of saying that extra vitamin C, at best, does nothing.
Also, let's take a step back from the whole vaccine hysteria/concern. Everyone from the CDC to almost every Haredi rav say that vaccinations are safe. Every medicine has POTENTIAL side effects, but they're worthwhile - and if they're were something that you could actually do to lower the already low risk of side effects - it would already be recommended.
Why not just listen to the experts, your pediatricians and rebbeim? |
This exactly.
People who r sure they know more than those who've studied medicine for years- r just demonstrating ignorance.
The more someone claims to know on a topic they demonstrate ignorance on - the less respect I have for them.
General statement for life btw
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amother
Floralwhite
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 3:46 pm
| ectomorph wrote: | | This is a well done piece of anti vaccine propaganda. |
Tell people not to vaccinate = anti-vaccine propaganda
Tell people TO vaccinate = anti-vaccine propaganda
Can't win here, folks.
Either you blindly trust everything said by the guys in white coats, or else you ARE an anti-vaxxer. Even if you vaccinate, even if you encourage OTHERS to vaccinate. If you dare to insinuate that vaccinations are anything other than pure rainbows and sunshine, you ARE an anti-vaxxer. If you think that VAERS is not a scapegoat, and that negative reactions are not imaginary, you ARE an anti-vaxxer.
So the war is on: Not against those who don't vaccinate. But against those who don't BELIEVE.
Let the witch trials commence!
(I have relatives that are doctors. Medical school does not confer magical powers on you. They may know more medical terminology and organic chemistry than I do, but I know more about nutrition and vaccine science. And several doctors and nurses I discussed this with agreed that there are ways to make vaccines safer.)
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Sebastian
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 4:12 pm
OP if giving your kid mega doses of vitamin c will make you comfortable enough to give the mmr, then go for it.
I am of the belief that the vitamins a person needs can and should be gotten from the food s/he eats unless they were tested to be deficient. I would also be wary that the vitamin c would make the vaccine less effective.
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amother
Silver
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 4:34 pm
| amother wrote: | Tell people not to vaccinate = anti-vaccine propaganda
Tell people TO vaccinate = anti-vaccine propaganda
Can't win here, folks.
Either you blindly trust everything said by the guys in white coats, or else you ARE an anti-vaxxer. Even if you vaccinate, even if you encourage OTHERS to vaccinate. If you dare to insinuate that vaccinations are anything other than pure rainbows and sunshine, you ARE an anti-vaxxer. If you think that VAERS is not a scapegoat, and that negative reactions are not imaginary, you ARE an anti-vaxxer.
So the war is on: Not against those who don't vaccinate. But against those who don't BELIEVE.
Let the witch trials commence!
(I have relatives that are doctors. Medical school does not confer magical powers on you. They may know more medical terminology and organic chemistry than I do, but I know more about nutrition and vaccine science. And several doctors and nurses I discussed this with agreed that there are ways to make vaccines safer.) |
Or we trust the guy who experimented with his kid(s) and Vitamin C before MMR.
Vitamin C in high doses was once used to treat measles. Any concerns saturating the system with it before vaccination would negate the vaccine?
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southernbubby
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 5:52 pm
Because I was not covered for the titer and had to pay out of pocket, I asked the nurse practitioner why I wasn't just re-immunized without the titer. She said that they only want to give it if it is truly necessary. They clearly don't view vaccines as risk free and totally harmless.
OTOH, they don't promote de-toxing or taking huge amounts of vitamins. Maybe they don't think that it's safe and effective or necessary.
Everyone is pointing to the evil Big Pharma but alternative medicine practitioners and their products are also multi-million or billion dollar industries with little to no accountability.
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amother
Floralwhite
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Sun, Mar 31 2019, 6:48 pm
Those who were concerned that Vitamin C might mitigate the effects of the vaccine: Glad you asked. Was addressed in one of the links I posted. It is actually shown by studies to improve the efficacy of the vaccine
Sodium ascorbate isn't making alternative medicine any money. You can get a lb of the stuff, with hundreds of servings, for $7 or less. It is a standard ingredient and not a specialized supplement. Check your labels, it's in cereal and other foods.
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