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Can we make aliyah?
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amother
Rose


 

Post Sun, Mar 31 2019, 3:39 am
My husband and I strongly wish to live in Israel permanently. We have been living here for a few years already, but had previously planned to move back to England.

The thing is that top of our priorities is that I can be a stay at home mum, which, so far I have been able to do due to special circumstances that will soon change.
My husband is a Sofer. He plans to eke out a living that way while studying for a degree that will help him gain a job in an Anglo yeshiva. Our long term plans is that he’d work part time sofer, part time yeshiva. We could buy a home outside of Jerusalem with parental help right now.
In England, that would be enough to support our family in the next few years and later on, I could get a part time job. A lot of women in England work part time.

In Israel, I know the salary is lower and most women around me are working full time.

If it is not possible for us to live on my husbands salary plus a part time (work at home) salary, then aliyah remains a dream for us because we don’t want me to work full time.
I am bh very talented. I could run chugim, teach English, be an eim bayit in a seminary, and I write very well. I am great with people. I have a BA in English Language and Literature. I have experience in directing choirs and dramas and lots of experience in kiruv.

Currently, we need 11k nis to live. We are in Jerusalem with 2 kids (to give an idea of our current living standards). My husband feels that with his jobs he could bring in that amount, but we are thinking ahead to when we will have iyh more kids and more expenses.

Is it possible to live this way in Israel?

Thanks!
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 31 2019, 3:49 am
I know this answer is not exactly what you were asking, but if you have been living here for 2 years already, you should contact misrad hapnim to see how that may affect your schuyot (rights/benefits) if you make aliya.

Olim are eligible for mortgage discounts, training classes, etc that may be helpful is getting you the boost you need to earn the salary you require for long-term stability.
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2gether




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 31 2019, 3:53 am
If this is very important to you, you could probably make it work.

First of all, if you are renting in Jslm a big part of that 11k is probably rent.
If you move to a suberb (Telzstone, BeitShemesh, Beitar, Kiryat Sefer etc.) the rent is basically half, and other things are cheaper too (food, transportation, childcare, sheitals washing and other sevices).
If with parental help you can afford to buy, then even better, but I would rent a few mos. to see that you like the particular community. In the meantime sign up to Mechir Lamishtaken.

Alot of Israeli women work full time and alot don't, just like anywhere else. All my neighbors work part time, I'm the only one who works full time. You might want to try to work in a gan/school setting if you want a long term solution for yourself that's a part time job. But that's not the only option by far.

If you are currently finishing the mo. on DH's salary than right now your fine. And how long is his program? So in 2, 3, 4 yrs. he'll earn more, and maybe you'll have a part time job, to be able to cover for increased expenses.
This is just my opinion please break down the numbers yourself.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 31 2019, 4:50 am
Does that 11K you're currently spending include rent?

If you buy a home with help from parents, do you mean they'll pay for the entire home? Or they'll make the down payment and you'll have a mortgage?

In general, I think it's possible to get by with one full-time and one part-time salary. In general, though, working in the arts or in a seminary isn't a great part-time salary, and work in kiruv pays next to nothing. If your goal is that your dh work in kodesh I'd recommend that you work in something else, maybe content writing or English tutoring.

Do you work now? How many hours a week would you want to work? And also - are you aware of the differences in religious education between here and England? (dunno your kids' ages but that can be a big obstacle to aliyah for some people). Do you speak Hebrew?
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salt




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 31 2019, 4:51 am
2gether wrote:
If this is very important to you, you could probably make it work.

First of all, if you are renting in Jslm a big part of that 11k is probably rent.
If you move to a suberb (Telzstone, BeitShemesh, Beitar, Kiryat Sefer etc.) the rent is basically half, and other things are cheaper too (food, transportation, childcare, sheitals washing and other sevices).
If with parental help you can afford to buy, then even better, but I would rent a few mos. to see that you like the particular community. In the meantime sign up to Mechir Lamishtaken.

Alot of Israeli women work full time and alot don't, just like anywhere else. All my neighbors work part time, I'm the only one who works full time. You might want to try to work in a gan/school setting if you want a long term solution for yourself that's a part time job. But that's not the only option by far.

If you are currently finishing the mo. on DH's salary than right now your fine. And how long is his program? So in 2, 3, 4 yrs. he'll earn more, and maybe you'll have a part time job, to be able to cover for increased expenses.
This is just my opinion please break down the numbers yourself.


I agree. It sounds like it is important to you. I think you should go for it. It sounds like you could easily get part time work or work from home when your kids are a little older. People live very modestly in Israel and can get by on very little.
The thought of moving back to England when Jeremy Corbyn is likely to get elected as Prime Minister in the next few years is enough to encourage anyone to stay and make a go of it in Israel.
It is an amazing zchut if you can do it. Jews have been dreaming and praying to live in Israel for 2000 years.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Sun, Mar 31 2019, 9:45 am
There are always ways of making it work. You may have to think out of the box, though.
A job in an Anglo Yeshiva doesn't pay well and the jobs are usually reserved for the Rosh Yeshiva's sons.

If your husband is open to other jobs besides for chinuch, like an office/computer job, you are more likely to manage.
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amother
Rose


 

Post Sun, Mar 31 2019, 12:47 pm
Thank you for all your comments, much to think about. I appreciate the reassurance.

DrMom, I will look into all that, thanks.

We pay 5000 nis for rent.
2gether, it's a good idea to rent a few months before buying, thanks.

ora, 11k does include the rent - 5k.
Our parents would be paying for the down payment (along with all our savings) and we'll have a mortgage. I could look into tutoring, I just have to brush up my Hebrew. I'm nervous to take a contractual job like content writing, because all my previous pregnancies have been so difficult that I've had to stop working. I hear that content writing on a freelance basis hardly pays.
I don't work now. I'd like to work the minimum hours possible!
We are aware of the religious education, and plan on getting our boys tutoring on the side to give them some secular education.
I'm planning on getting Hebrew tutoring.

salt, thanks for the chizuk!

amother bronze, my husband will take an office job if necessary, ie if it's that or me working full time, but we would really like him to work in chinuch.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 31 2019, 12:52 pm
Living in J'm on a small income is very stressful. Please check out Beit Shemesh. We have regular buses going to the center of Jerusalem every 15 minutes or so. It's an easy commute. The schools here are great, and housing is very affordable right now. The prices are going to go up soon, so this would be a good place to invest.

Depending on where you are hashkafically, there are some neighborhoods with new construction that will be booming soon, so it would be good to get in "on the ground floor" as it were.

If you want to talk to me, or get the name of an amazing realtor, PM me. I am extremely happy here. (I live in Aleph, which is more yeshivish/modern mix.)
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ChutzPAh




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 31 2019, 5:00 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
Living in J'm on a small income is very stressful. Please check out Beit Shemesh. We have regular buses going to the center of Jerusalem every 15 minutes or so. It's an easy commute. The schools here are great, and housing is very affordable right now. The prices are going to go up soon, so this would be a good place to invest.

Depending on where you are hashkafically, there are some neighborhoods with new construction that will be booming soon, so it would be good to get in "on the ground floor" as it were.

If you want to talk to me, or get the name of an amazing realtor, PM me. I am extremely happy here. (I live in Aleph, which is more yeshivish/modern mix.)


When did you move? I thought you lived up north.
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2gether




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2019, 2:29 am
Also, if you make Aliyah you can attend Ulpan for free (and receive a stipend too!) and then you won't need to go for tutoring. If you don't work, than this is the best time to do it.
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amother
Rose


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2019, 2:52 am
2gether wrote:
Also, if you make Aliyah you can attend Ulpan for free (and receive a stipend too!) and then you won't need to go for tutoring. If you don't work, than this is the best time to do it.


Unfortunately I can’t go to regular ulpan because I have a 1 year old home with me, but I’m looking into private tutoring.
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amother
Rose


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2019, 2:57 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
Living in J'm on a small income is very stressful. Please check out Beit Shemesh. We have regular buses going to the center of Jerusalem every 15 minutes or so. It's an easy commute. The schools here are great, and housing is very affordable right now. The prices are going to go up soon, so this would be a good place to invest.

Depending on where you are hashkafically, there are some neighborhoods with new construction that will be booming soon, so it would be good to get in "on the ground floor" as it were.

If you want to talk to me, or get the name of an amazing realtor, PM me. I am extremely happy here. (I live in Aleph, which is more yeshivish/modern mix.)


Thanks! I have PM’d you
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2gether




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2019, 2:58 am
Well with the 2,800 something shekel you get to go maybe you can afford a babysitter?
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2019, 3:03 am
There are evening ulpan classes that may not be everyday.
If you were to leave Jerusalem now for a nearby community you could shave a couple thousand off your rent.
(My daughter's teacher "lets" her students babysit while she gives a chug in her home. Third grade, they play with 1-2 kids in the bedroom or the playground downstairs. She pays them with a candy and they vie for the honor.)
You have to factor babysitting in. I know a few women who work from home and have an older girl watch their kids until they finish at 4. In their home so theytske younger girls, ages 10-14, grades 4+.
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2gether




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2019, 3:07 am
Iymnok wrote:
There are evening ulpan classes that may not be everyday.
If you were to leave Jerusalem now for a nearby community you could shave a couple thousand off your rent.
(My daughter's teacher "lets" her students babysit while she gives a chug in her home. Third grade, they play with 1-2 kids in the bedroom or the playground downstairs. She pays them with a candy and they vie for the honor.)
You have to factor babysitting in. I know a few women who work from home and have an older girl watch their kids until they finish at 4. In their home so theytske younger girls, ages 10-14, grades 4+.


There are currently no separate women's Ulpan in the evening in the Jslm area. If anybody could set that up it would be a huge chessed for the Tzibur who works/has little kids at home.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2019, 3:40 am
So I would tentatively say yes, it sounds doable.

It is hard to say with certainty because your husband doesn't have a career yet, you don't have a career yet, and you're not sure how many kids you're going to have. Obviously there's a huge difference between a full-time teacher and part-time English tutor supporting a family of four kids, and a kiruv rabbi and stay at home mom supporting a family with eight kids.

But it sounds like you have a few different options for part-time or at-home work, and he's being flexible about his career (IOW, willing to work in something other than kiruv, if that's what it takes to support the family).

I think the main questions, then, are:

- What are your options for getting a mortgage now, with neither of you having a full-time salary? (IOW what bank gives that loan, and on what terms?)
- How would you make it financially for the next 2-3 years (while your husband is working part-time and studying part-time, and you are home with the kids?)
- What are the main fields your husband is considering going into, and what are the salaries in those fields? IOW - make sure that 11,000 shekels a month is a realistic goal for him. (In some fields, eg teaching, the salary would be lower than that for the first few years. Although if he's able to do some work as a sofer on the side, that might still be an option).

If you can get through the next few years, then I think that long-term, it should be possible to support a family on 1.5 salaries. A lot of women work part-time.
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Israeli_C




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2019, 4:04 am
When I saw the thread title I thought you or DH had a dodgy conversion and you weren't sure if you could get citizenship. You can of course make aliyah. In terms of quality of life, I think DH needs to look into getting a second job if you are staying at home with a 1 year old. BTW freelance tech writers can earn very well. DH just got me some work freelancing for his hi-tech company while they source a replacement for someone who left and it's a very nice income for the amount of hours I'm actually investing (I'm at home with 3 month old twins).

I'm assuming that since you're already here 2 years, you know that being frum in England can be very different from being religious (or especially haredi) in Israel. Worth keeping in mind. Tbh if I could do it all over, I'd be tempted to live in London rather than Israel.
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amother
Puce


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2019, 4:12 am
amother wrote:

Currently, we need 11k nis to live. We are in Jerusalem with 2 kids (to give an idea of our current living standards). My husband feels that with his jobs he could bring in that amount, but we are thinking ahead to when we will have iyh more kids and more expenses.

Is it possible to live this way in Israel?

Thanks!


You will probably need a lot more than 11k if you are hoping for a large family.

Can you work part-time long term in Israel? Yes, if your dh is bringing in a nice salary (he won't be bringing in 11k neto in a yeshiva, unless he is working as a certified teacher for an official school. And has 20 years experience). So your dh should be thinking about increasing earning potential.

If you have a BA in English then you can be an English teacher (for a proper salary, you'd need to get a teaching diploma). Teachers definitely can work p/t in Israel, but then you also get part-time pay. The plus is you would be paid all holidays and summers.

The other big questions are, what kind of a mortgage are you looking at? What kind of lifestyle? It seems you belong to the charedi community, which in general is much poorer than the rest of Israel and used to living on a lower standard of living. So less income is needed to live the typical charedi lifestyle.
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Israeli_C




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2019, 4:16 am
amother wrote:
It seems you belong to the charedi community, which in general is much poorer than the rest of Israel and used to living on a lower standard of living. So less income is needed to live the typical charedi lifestyle.


Not necessarily. As someone who is part of the charedi community, I can tell you that being charedi doesn't come cheap and people are becoming increasingly materialistic across the board. But most charedim are just smarter when it comes to how they spend their money. Eg buying in bulk from Osher Ad instead of doing what my non-religious neighbours do buying their weekly groceries in the local makolet.
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amother
Puce


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2019, 4:26 am
Israeli_C wrote:
Not necessarily. As someone who is part of the charedi community, I can tell you that being charedi doesn't come cheap and people are becoming increasingly materialistic across the board. But most charedim are just smarter when it comes to how they spend their money. Eg buying in bulk from Osher Ad instead of doing what my non-religious neighbours do buying their weekly groceries in the local makolet.


I've been here 30 years, and have enough family in the charedi world, to know that it's quite true.
Charedim are much poorer than the rest of the population. Look at all the research and statistics, you don't need to believe me.

As for buying in Osher Ad - it's a matter of priorities. I hate going there, the shopping experience is the pits, and they don't have any fancier brands or anything that isn't badatz. The selection is extremely limited. Also, they don't have an online delivery service.

Don't forget also, that most deals in Osher Ad require you to buy huge, vast quantities. Not everyone wants a pail of peanut butter sitting in their pantry, or 10 packs of cookies when they only wanted one. This works out ok if you have 5 or 10 kids, but it's just annoying if you have 2 or 3 kids.

It's not that the charedim are smarter about spending their money, it's that they have no choice, because their income is so limited.
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