Can we make aliyah?

Israeli_C

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 4:48 am

amother wrote:

I've been here 30 years, and have enough family in the charedi world, to know that it's quite true.
Charedim are much poorer than the rest of the population. Look at all the research and statistics, you don't need to believe me.

As for buying in Osher Ad - it's a matter of priorities. I hate going there, the shopping experience is the pits, and they don't have any fancier brands or anything that isn't badatz. The selection is extremely limited. Also, they don't have an online delivery service.

Don't forget also, that most deals in Osher Ad require you to buy huge, vast quantities. Not everyone wants a pail of peanut butter sitting in their pantry, or 10 packs of cookies when they only wanted one. This works out ok if you have 5 or 10 kids, but it's just annoying if you have 2 or 3 kids.

It's not that the charedim are smarter about spending their money, it's that they have no choice, because their income is so limited.

Limited income is often a conscious choice. I know families who decided that DH will study full time and the wife will be a gannenet. I also know many others, like myself, where the husband earns very well and wife stays at home. For example, my DH brings in 30K a month and many of our charedi contemporaries (and I'm talking Israeli charedi, not anglo haredi) have even fancier apartments and more kids than we do. Charedim often save money in ways which are not necessarily 'measurable' by statistical findings. Gemachim, subsidised childcare costs (my daughter's tzaharon is 400 NIS for the whole year), bulk buying, not spending on luxuries (smartphones, holidays abroad, brand label clothes) etc.

As for Osher Ad - true, if you've got 2 kids and a dog you probably won't save thousands there. But if you're like me, where my family only eats batatz and we have 4 kids aged 3 and under who need materna and diapers by the truck load, it's a heaven sent. Agreed that the lack of online delivery is a pain. Sometimes I make do with Rami Levi. Also, those who are smart with their money don't waste it on frivolous foods like cookies and peanut butter. I have never bought such things. We stock up on the basics and I bake and cook from scratch. We're certainly not poor, but we don't throw money willy nilly.

Israeli_C

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 4:51 am

amother wrote:

I specifically want her to be with me, one of the reasons I would rather not work.
I’m not sure I will get that money anyway as I have been in Israel for 5 years. I plan on asking NBN.

I also felt this way with my daughter. FYI it's possible to find work from home with American companies managing social media etc. Also personally I found ulpan a total waste of time. I got fluent in Hebrew from living among Israelis. I also married an Israeli with limited English, but I guess that ship has sailed. Look into mothers groups which meet up to practice your Hebrew.

amother

Puce

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 4:53 am

Israeli_C wrote:

Also, those who are smart with their money don't waste it on frivolous foods like cookies and peanut butter. I have never bought such things. We stock up on the basics and I bake and cook from scratch. We're certainly not poor, but we don't throw money willy nilly.

And this is exactly my point about charedi lifestyles.

Not all Israelis would think buying cookies and peanut butter is 'throwing money willy nilly'.

Not everyone who works here even has time to bake and cook everything from scratch.

amother

Burgundy

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 5:34 am

Israeli_C wrote:

wow, israeli_c, what field does your husband work in that he makes that amount of money?

blessedjmom

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 5:42 am

So I'm usually one for practicality and all that.

I will share a bit of our experience though,. When we first were going to come here after we got married, we had some financial support and zero income. The support basically covered our rent. Otherwise we simply couldn't figure out how we were going to make it work. With bills to pay, and everything else. So we were lounging around in the US of A and we were trying to figure out how exactly we we're going to make it work. Until someone met my husband and told him listen" if you ever want to go, stop doing all those calculations and just go, it won't happen otherwise" . So naturally I would never advise it oh, because you do have to be responsible. But there's something about Israel and living here that is beyond derech Teva. We saw open miracles. And now a good couple of years down the line, my husband is doing very well in business, as am I in a job I trained in and work at from home. I actually think we are better off financially here then we would be in the United States. We live simply, we have what we need, and we have some for extras.
And I am forever grateful to that person that encouraged us to stop thinking so much and just come. Because we were going to come anyway. It was our dream. And we are so grateful that we can make it work.

Situation is different because we came without children- so the responsibilities are different. But if you can make it work in the beginning, I think you'll figure it out

Rappel

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 5:52 am

If you want to, it's certainly possible Smile

We have 2 children. I'm a stay at home mum, and I write articles in the evenings for pocket money. DH is working security, and learning to be a tour guide. We are making ends meet nicely - though our rent is certainly not as high as Jerusalem's.

As for worrying about the future: I wouldn't. Make a practical plan, and if anything changes, then you can always reevaluate later. Hashem helps.

Behatzlaha! And welcome!

Israeli_C

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 6:07 am

amother wrote:

Lol definitely different mindsets - I'd see those two items as being luxuries (big time!). We only eat cookies on shabbat and I've never eaten peanut butter in all my life. I bake about twice a week, nothing crazy. I also do it in big batches and freeze.

Israeli_C

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 6:39 am

blessedjmom wrote:

there's something about Israel and living here that is beyond derech Teva

THIS!
For example, when DH and I decided we wanted to buy an apartment in the merkaz we thought it'd be impossible. Then my anti-semitic aunt (who loved me when I wasn't Jewish and never figured out why I never returned from "volunteering on kibbutzim for one summer" as my parents had lied to her) died without any children and in her will left me enough money (together with taking out a mortgage) to buy a 5 room apartment in the merkaz.
Nisim and niflaot!

Rappel

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 12:34 pm

Agreed with blessedjmom and Israeli_C. Leaps of faith work here, because G-d is so obviously there to catch you.

I actually have a theory about that: Israelis are so "crazy" and "dangerous" (that was what we said, growing up in Brooklyn) because people here rely completely on hashgacha pratit. It's like the air we breathe; it's natural for everything to turn out okay, forget the odds. We don't even realize how deeply it affects us, but here we get constant care from G-d.

amother

Cerise

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 12:56 pm

Israeli_C wrote:

Sometimes I make do with Rami Levi. Also, those who are smart with their money don't waste it on frivolous foods like cookies and peanut butter. I have never bought such things. We stock up on the basics and I bake and cook from scratch. We're certainly not poor, but we don't throw money willy nilly.

Curious what is so expensive about peanut butter. The B&D large container is around 18nis.

amother

Seafoam

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 2:29 pm

Israeli_C wrote:

IMHO it's a luxury. It's certainly not bread, eggs, flour or butter. If it was a staple food it'd be subsidised by the government.

In the US it's part of the WIC program for low income pregnant/ nursing women and young children, so the government definitely considers it somewhat of a staple. Probably the Israeli equivalent would be tahini.

(I buy peanut butter without added sugar, and it's actually very nutritious and often recommended by doctors and nutritionists as a healthy source of fat and protein.)

amother

Firebrick

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 3:41 pm

Its all about the choices you make. Live smart definetly recommend moving out of jerusalem, sign up for the Mechir Lemishtekn program it will save you at least a couple hundred thousand shekels, if you pay less for rent cheaper house thats already a nice sum to put away or to invest for when you have a bigger family. In my opinion moving to a different community and that means being able to live here is totally worth it !! Your welcome to pm me for more info

Israeli_C

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 11:24 pm

amother wrote:

Well, this isn't the US. This is Israel.
And to be fair, the US isn't considered the bastion of healthy food options.